Can Winning Matter, Please? Topic

colonels19
Posts: 4399 (0)
Hall of Famer
78 90 3 1 168 2 1 11
Prospect
I have to gripe about this because this seeding based on RPI is just crap.

A Northern Kentucky team in D2 Tark made the PI with a 9-19 record...86 RPI, 2 SOS. Not only is his team under .333 (let alone .500), of his 19 losses, only 5 were by less than 10 points and 1 by less than 5 points...and this guy's a 7 seed in the PI...give me a break.

That's the problem with the RPI, if you play a tough schedule, you're gold...it doesn't matter if you lose or how much you lost by, it just matters that you showed up, and that's complete crap. Its a huge shortcoming in the RPI system, especially in a game like HD where you can easily manipulate your schedule to attain a high RPI, almost by default. Again, when does/should winning matter? They wouldn't have made any tournament using the BPI system fwiw...this is just crap.

The team in question... http://www.whatifsports.com/hd/TeamProfile/Schedule.aspx?tid=12160
5/11/2010 3:07 PM
sully712
Posts: 124 (0)
Hall of Famer
1 301 2 22
Prospect
Winning matters too much if you ask me. Look at the NT in Tark. Syracuse was 15-12 with a 54 RPI and 24 SOS. There were several at-large teams with similar RPI but terrible SOS. The teams won over 20 games. It is a shame that a Syracuse team that plays a tough schedule does not get rewarded.
5/11/2010 3:16 PM
colonels19
Posts: 4399 (0)
Hall of Famer
78 90 3 1 168 2 1 11
Prospect
Quote: Originally Posted By sully712 on 5/11/2010Winning matters too much if you ask me. Look at the NT in Tark. Syracuse was 15-12 with a 54 RPI and 24 SOS. There were several at-large teams with similar RPI but terrible SOS. The teams won over 20 games. It is a shame that a Syracuse team that plays a tough schedule does not get rewarded
Since you brought it up, what are some of the other SOS numbers?
5/11/2010 3:20 PM
sully712
Posts: 124 (0)
Hall of Famer
1 301 2 22
Prospect
Coppin St 23-6 58 RPI 205 SOS

Denver 22-7 50 RPI 125 SOS

N. Iowa 22-7 53 RPI 131 SOS

Not sure if there are others.
5/11/2010 4:05 PM
mmt0315
Posts: 450 (0)
Hall of Famer
1 323 4 7
Prospect
Quote: Originally Posted By sully712 on 5/11/2010
Coppin St 23-6 58 RPI 205 SOS

Denver 22-7 50 RPI 125 SOS

N. Iowa 22-7 53 RPI 131 SOS

Not sure if there are others.



How can you even contend that Syracuse with a 15-12 record and a 52 RPI has any business getting into the tournament over any of the above mentioned teams? You must be basing it on SOS which is insane that you'd judge SOS over Wins and Losses, specifically when the RPIs are almost all the same.
5/11/2010 4:10 PM
sully712
Posts: 124 (0)
Hall of Famer
1 301 2 22
Prospect
Lets say Syracuse added 5 teams to their schedule which dropped the SOS to around 100. They would definitely have 20 wins. Teams are getting rewarded for beating bad teams and padding their stats.
5/11/2010 4:12 PM
sully712
Posts: 124 (0)
Hall of Famer
1 301 2 22
Prospect
Coppin St did not PLAY one team with an RPI under 105. Quality schedule.
5/11/2010 4:14 PM
mmt0315
Posts: 450 (0)
Hall of Famer
1 323 4 7
Prospect
Quote: Originally Posted By sully712 on 5/11/2010Lets say Syracuse added 5 teams to their schedule which dropped the SOS to around 100. They would definitely have 20 wins. Teams are getting rewarded for beating bad teams and padding their stats
You have nothing to base that on...and you dont know that the resulting crappy teams wouldnt shoot the RPI into the 100s as well, Syracuse's nonconference schedule was pretty pathetic and he went 7-9 in conference the SOS is simply a result of playing in a tough conference. By your screwed up logic a team that goes 0-26 with the #1 SOS should get into the tournament over a team that goes 26-0 but has the #300 SOS...because the 0-26 team surely would have won 26 games had they scheduled easier...you know what they'd call my mom if she had a set of nuts?
5/11/2010 4:17 PM
colonels19
Posts: 4399 (0)
Hall of Famer
78 90 3 1 168 2 1 11
Prospect
Dude, 2 of those teams had better RPI than Syracuse had...thus they didn't necessarily make it because they had a better record, they made it because they had a better RPI.

As for Coppin State, I think the argument here is that they won their RS CC and Syracuse did not. I don't think Coppin State got in over Syracuse because WIS properly accounts for winning and losing, and I don't care what you say, if you have a team making the PI with 9 wins, your formula doesn't account for wins that greatly, despite the fact that it defines individual game success...to quote Herm Edwards "You play to win the game!"
5/11/2010 4:18 PM
colonels19
Posts: 4399 (0)
Hall of Famer
78 90 3 1 168 2 1 11
Prospect
Quote: Originally Posted By mmt0315 on 5/11/2010You have nothing to base that on...and you dont know that the resulting crappy teams wouldnt shoot the RPI into the 100s as well, Syracuse's nonconference schedule was pretty pathetic and he went 7-9 in conference the SOS is simply a result of playing in a tough conference. By your screwed up logic a team that goes 0-26 with the #1 SOS should get into the tournament over a team that goes 26-0 but has the #300 SOS...because the 0-26 team surely would have won 26 games had they scheduled easier...you know what they'd call my mom if she had a set of nuts? Your dad? lol
5/11/2010 4:19 PM
mmt0315
Posts: 450 (0)
Hall of Famer
1 323 4 7
Prospect
Quote: Originally Posted By colonels19 on 5/11/2010
Dude, 2 of those teams had better RPI than Syracuse had...thus they didn't necessarily make it because they had a better record, they made it because they had a better RPI.

As for Coppin State, I think the argument here is that they won their RS CC and Syracuse did not. I don't think Coppin State got in over Syracuse because WIS properly accounts for winning and losing, and I don't care what you say, if you have a team making the PI with 9 wins, your formula doesn't account for wins that greatly, despite the fact that it defines individual game success...to quote Herm Edwards "You play to win the game!"



I think the point youre missing is that the PI doesnt account for wins as much as you'd like it too; which it doesnt in reality either.
5/11/2010 4:21 PM
colonels19
Posts: 4399 (0)
Hall of Famer
78 90 3 1 168 2 1 11
Prospect
Quote: Originally Posted By mmt0315 on 5/11/2010
Quote: Originally Posted By colonels19 on 5/11/2010

Dude, 2 of those teams had better RPI than Syracuse had...thus they didn't necessarily make it because they had a better record, they made it because they had a better RPI.

As for Coppin State, I think the argument here is that they won their RS CC and Syracuse did not. I don't think Coppin State got in over Syracuse because WIS properly accounts for winning and losing, and I don't care what you say, if you have a team making the PI with 9 wins, your formula doesn't account for wins that greatly, despite the fact that it defines individual game success...to quote Herm Edwards "You play to win the game!"




I think the point youre missing is that the PI doesnt account for wins as much as you'd like it too; which it doesnt in reality either.
Care to show me a team that made the NIT or a lesser tournament IRL that made the tournament with a losing record, let alone 10 games under .500?
5/11/2010 4:22 PM
emy1013
Posts: 2731 (0)
Hall of Famer
898
Prospect
I gotta agree with Colonels here. A 9-19 team doesn't belong in the postseason, no matter what his RPI and SOS are/were. As pointed out earlier, he didn't even win a third of his games. For him to get ANY kind of postseason bid is a joke really........
5/11/2010 4:26 PM
mmt0315
Posts: 450 (0)
Hall of Famer
1 323 4 7
Prospect
I dont feel like looking it up but Im sure its happened...
5/11/2010 4:27 PM
brianp87
Posts: 1340 (0)
Hall of Famer
1 46 89
Prospect
Quote: Originally Posted By emy1013 on 5/11/2010I gotta agree with Colonels here. A 9-19 team doesn't belong in the postseason, no matter what his RPI and SOS are/were. As pointed out earlier, he didn't even win a third of his games. For him to get ANY kind of postseason bid is a joke really.......
Agreed and this may be the only time I agree with him
5/11/2010 4:28 PM
1|2|3...8 Next ▸
Can Winning Matter, Please? Topic
△Top△Bottom

Search Criteria

Terms of Use Customer Support Privacy Statement

© 1999-2026 WhatIfSports.com, Inc. All rights reserved. WhatIfSports is a trademark of WhatIfSports.com, Inc. SimLeague, SimMatchup and iSimNow are trademarks or registered trademarks of Electronic Arts, Inc. Used under license. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.