I put my ML SS on the 15-day DL and called up my top 2B prospect from AAA. Plan was to send him back down when my SS comes off the DL.

3 games later, the 2B prospect goes down with a minor injury. Just a few games. No big deal.

If I understand how demotion penalties work, I could have demoted the 2B back to AAA when the SS comes off the DL and not risked a penalty.

What happens if I demote the 2B now, before the SS comes off DL, and call up a healthy player for 10-15 games? Any risk of the 2B prospect getting a demotion penalty?

And will there be a risk of the other AAA player getting a demotion penalty when I send him back to AAA when my SS comes off the DL?

I'm not 100% on this but to the best of my knowledge the transaction up and the transaction down have to coincide with the ML going onto and coming off the DL. So you could be risking both players suffering a demotion hit. Like I said I'm not 100% but this is how I understand it to work and I wouldn't risk it with good prospects.

You risk demotion penalties.

there are penalties? What are they?

If you demote a player after ST starts, he might take a ratings hit in a few categories. 1-3 points. Personally, I don't think it's a big deal. If a 68 is unacceptable, I'm not so sure 70 was acceptable either.

agreed with mike

thx

Thanks, Mike.

WIS Support Response:

The only way to prevent a demotion penalty is to promote a player the same time another one is placed on the DL and then demote him when removing the other player from the DL. If the promotions and demotions are done at any other time there could be a demotion penalty.

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IMO, an over-thought aspect of HBD. I don't think there's any evidence in the real world that players arms get weaker, they get slower, or they lose fielding range, if they're called up to the ML for a short stay and then sent back to the MinL.

It's there to prevent owners from using the 40 man roster as a 25 man roster. HBD doesn't have enough injuries but it uses fatigue as another way to "convince" owners to give players a rest. If one were allowed to promote/demote at will, with no risk, most of us would have 30-35 players we'd rotate back and forth. The low DUR players are often the best ratings-wise. The way to keep them fresh would be to send them to AAA for some inactive time.

Well, a player has to spend 10 days down in the minors if they are demoted in real life. Not sure if they have this modeled in HBD, but I know they have something similar in SimLeague. That would prevent the shuttling you are talking about. Also, player options going to zero will also make it difficult to shuttle people back and forth.

Yes, it's like that in HBD.

But it doesn't matter. If a player drops to 98, he needs 5-8 days off in order to get off the 100/99/100/99/100 rollercoaster. Sending him to AAA for 10 days is no big deal.

IMO, the demotion penalty is one of the worst aspects of HBD. Teams can and do use AAA players to keep their ML teams fresh in real life. They will often call up a player for one game and then send him back down. The only restrictions on this in real life are the 10-day requirement and options.

The demotion penalties are not always just a few points:

Exhibit A

This guy lost 6 pts of glove, 4 in arm accuracy, 5 in vsl, 4 in vsr, 4 in eye, 5 in baserunning, 3 in power. Just a brutal penalty. To make matters worse, I demoted this guy before spring training started. I did it immediately following the rule 5 draft, but before the first ST game. Apparently, you need to demote them before the Rule 5 draft to avoid risk of a penalty.

And yes, I realize this guy has low patience and makeup. I only demoted him because I thought it was risk-free.

Judging from his numbers, he was a borderline BL player. Still is.

The demotion penalty forces owners to take roster decisions seriously(just like real life). Without them, we just correct our bad decisions with no repercussions.

Does length of time in the ML impact the demotion penalty?

Kahrtmen's Exhibit A player was in the ML for 3 seasons and them demoted back to AAA. I'm not sure why, but I'm more OK with him having some sort of response to being demoted that I am to a career 25th man taking a ratings hit if he's promoted and demoted several times during the first season or two he's in the ML.

Having an extra good arm in AAA to bring up a few times to fill in during the season, or a solid vet utility player to bring up and down a few times to rest players (including players with 2-6 game injuries) seems like it would reward good owners, not penalize them.

Shouldn't building in some amount of depth be a good thing? The current demotion rules penalize a deep team vs. a team with a few superstars and no depth.

Having more ways to build a good team should be goal. A random demotion penalty takes away overall depth as a strategy.