Take a look at the following boxscore and let me know what you think the manager should have done...(it's in the 10th inning)

Bill Harris is a RP btw


http://www.whatifsports.com/HBD/Pages/Popups/Boxscore.aspx?gid=29215067&pbp=0

My thinking is that when your bench is completely used up and pitchers have to be used - they should always by default go to RF or LF and then your lineup should be shuffled around.  Any other thoughts?  How would you handle situations like this?  Move the LF/RF to 2B and the 2B to SS? LF to RF or RP to RF, RF to 3B and 3B to SS?

It has to be a universally applicable process for every situation that could arise...but anything is better than a RP playing SS.

The "easy" solution would be to allow you to create a defensive matrix for the when you set defensive replacements to kick in.  You couldn't put a guy in more than 1 position for this, so if you have a defensive SS you want in late, and and offensive SS that normally plays, it would look at the matrix, bring in the SS off the bench, move the SS to 3b (or whereever you place him in the matrix for defensive subs) and move the 3b to the bench (or another position)  It gets complicated though due to pinch hitters or guys on rest, etc...  It would have to be several layers deep like the current defensive heirarchy.

Perhaps the solution to that later problem would be to start on the left of the defensive spectrum and when defensive replacements are called for it makes sure the top available SS is at SS, moves to 2b, out to CF, over to 3B, etc....  constantly taking the top guy at each position that is available.  If no one is available, then the current player remains in their spot.  It likely wouldn't be perfect, but it would be better than what you get now and would be closer to real life.  The one downside is that it could wipe out your bench in a hurry so a smart GM would have to make sure that their regular starters are listed at the top of a position somewhere unless they didn't mind them sitting on the bench.  It would be ideal if you had 1 defensive specialist that you wanted to bring in at a defensive position, but keep that bat in the lineup by allowing him to play somewhere else in the field.

Posted by tecwrg on 6/30/2010 12:17:00 PM (view original):
To the best of my knowledge, the game engine does not move players around to different positions during a game.

With that in mind, if your bench was completely depleted, then the engine made the only choice it was programmed to make.

So the bigger issue is: how to program the engine to shift player positions during a game, for any reason. Is it better to just put one player at a position in which he is defensively very inferior, or to shift a bunch of people around to positions where they are only moderately inferior?

This can open up a very big can of complaints, particularly if your Gold Glove 2B is moved to SS because of injury or because the SS was pinch-hit for, and his replacement at 2B commits an error that loses a game.

tec is right. It's just the way the engine works. There is no "sliding" option available in the rest or def. hierarchy.

Posted by iain on 6/30/2010 1:17:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 6/30/2010 12:17:00 PM (view original):
To the best of my knowledge, the game engine does not move players around to different positions during a game.

With that in mind, if your bench was completely depleted, then the engine made the only choice it was programmed to make.

So the bigger issue is: how to program the engine to shift player positions during a game, for any reason. Is it better to just put one player at a position in which he is defensively very inferior, or to shift a bunch of people around to positions where they are only moderately inferior?

This can open up a very big can of complaints, particularly if your Gold Glove 2B is moved to SS because of injury or because the SS was pinch-hit for, and his replacement at 2B commits an error that loses a game.

tec is right. It's just the way the engine works. There is no "sliding" option available in the rest or def. hierarchy.

I understand it's the way the engine works.  Is there a way to improve the engine so that it behaves more like real life?  The easiest programming and user friendly approach is what is in place now.  I'm wondering if there is another option that could work.

I think it would be a Pandora's box. You would have something that would either be too cumbersome to use effectively, or too simplistic such that when it kicks in it will be moving players around that you might not want moved in a particular situation.

A simple approach I was considering - always put the pitcher in at RF and put the RF wherever the injury was.  To me it's a matter of who I would rather have where and in ever case I can think of, I would rather have my RF in that position than a RP.  I don't know of any P that have decent fielding ratings.  Of course I don't want my RF at SS, but I definitely don't want a pitcher there.

I think this sort of thing happens to everyone once a season.  So the real question is......Would that warrant a change in the engine?    Personally, I don't think so because, color me jaded, I think the change would end up being worse than what we have now.   And, for something that happens .006 of the time, I wouldn't risk it.

True, but if that one game happened to be the deciding game of a playoff series and that RP made a game changing error at SS, I know I would be ******.  Mostly because it is a factor of the game that doesn't mirror real life.

Granted that possibility is small and quite possibly not worth the change - but where do you make the cutoff for what is and is not worth it?

I agree that I'd be ****** if it cost me a playoff series.  But I've thought SIMMY's use of pitchers has done the same.   Some things can be programmed rather easily and effectively, some things can't.   It's a "fault" of a simgame. 

(Cue the demands for live play).

Why not just carry adequate bench players, in terms of quantity and skill set(s), in the playoffs?

Very few "flaws" come down to much more than a poorly constructed team.

Too many pitchers on a roster is always bad. I rarely carry a 12th pitcher. The 25th man on your bench should have some value, even if he is all glove no bat for these situations, three outcomes player, 3rd catcher etc.

but this "flaw" or whatever you want to call it in the programming has nothing to do with team building.  I really don't care that my pitcher had to come into this came.  I care that he came in at SS.  If I built a team with 5 pitchers and 20 position players, there is still the small possibility that in a 20 inning game after multiple injuries I could have a RP come in and play a stupid position such as SS.  This type of event happens in real life and multiple times I have seen a pitcher play OF but not once have I ever heard of one coming in at SS.  MikeT makes the only real counter-point to this - that being there is just too much detail in real life to accurately create a sim that portrays all events that could ever happen.  Although, in this case I don't think it would be a major obstacle to program in a statement that my P goes to RF and my RF goes wherever the injury occured....although there is another can of worms if another injury after that happens....maybe it would suck to program that.