Splits and Pitches Topic

opie100
Posts: 1673 (0)
Hall of Famer
9 68
Prospect
What is the relationship between splits and pitches?  I've assumed that good pitches can make up for mediocre splits and vice-versa.  Is one more important than the other?  Is a 60/65 (l/r) with 70/60/60 (pitches) as good as a 70/75 with 60/50/50?
7/11/2010 9:49 AM (edited)
dmurphy104
Posts: 2299 (0)
Hall of Famer
18 1 137 12 101
Prospect

I'd take the 70/75 pitcher without question. The R split is extremely important. I would say that if Im giving up 10 points in rh split, I would need about a 20 point improvement in the pitches to offset that.

7/10/2010 11:09 PM
tecwrg
Posts: 18997 (0)
Hall of Famer
4 1 166 32 129
Prospect
Gut feeling, but I would also take the splits over the pitches in your example.
7/10/2010 11:12 PM
moustachee
Posts: 49 (0)
Hall of Famer
1 38 7 65
Prospect
yeah tough call.  But I'll present the alternative..i'd take the pitches.  Only because I've seen a more successful pitcher with 60/65 splits than I have with 60/50/50 pitches (even at best)
7/11/2010 1:27 AM
rebelt
Posts: 61 (0)
Hall of Famer
1 70
Prospect
I'm interested in this as well. I have a guy who is really interesting to me, but I'm sure exactly what to think about him.

He's projected to 77 stamina, 60 control, 66/57 splits, 84 velocity, 65 GB/FB, and pitches of 92-93-93-74.

The combination of control, splits, and GB/FB is lower than what I normally look for in a pitcher, but those pitches are absolutely fierce---even if he comes within only 5 points of each of them, that would still be 87-88-88-69 pitches, which is better than any individual pitcher I have ever seen.

What could I expect out of this guy? Could he at least be a #4/#5 starter?
7/11/2010 2:20 AM
mitchrapp
Posts: 807 (0)
Hall of Famer
106 20 14 109
Prospect
My opinion is you need good pitches. Good splits, regardless how good, might not do jack with crud pitches.
7/11/2010 4:30 AM
prezuiwf
Posts: 315 (0)
All Star
15 3 27
Prospect
I think splits are definitely more important. Ebenezer Brett for example has made a HoF career with his exceptional control and splits even with pitches of 66/67/63/48 currently. Compare with a guy like Ronnie Washington who's got splits of 47/63 and pitches of 93/81/56/72/39. Obviously he's had a good career as well but the splits (and control) are the difference between good and great, even though Washington has an incredible array of pitches and Brett lacks a single out pitch.
7/12/2010 12:55 AM
danmam
Posts: 342 (0)
Hall of Famer
2 22 22 82
Prospect
Posted by rebelt on 7/11/2010 2:20:00 AM (view original):
I'm interested in this as well. I have a guy who is really interesting to me, but I'm sure exactly what to think about him.

He's projected to 77 stamina, 60 control, 66/57 splits, 84 velocity, 65 GB/FB, and pitches of 92-93-93-74.

The combination of control, splits, and GB/FB is lower than what I normally look for in a pitcher, but those pitches are absolutely fierce---even if he comes within only 5 points of each of them, that would still be 87-88-88-69 pitches, which is better than any individual pitcher I have ever seen.

What could I expect out of this guy? Could he at least be a #4/#5 starter?
This guy will probably be a solid #3 SP. Great pitches like that can make a guy with splits as low as 45/45 a #5 SP, and with those other ratings that guy should be better than that.

I value splits higher than pitches overall, however I now believe great pitches can overcome mediocre splits. Two examples: Sam Stewart's career 3.76 ERA despite a vR that has hovered around 60 (and his pitches are worse than the guy in your example), and Ronn Graves, whose splits say he shouldn't be in the ML's, but with his good pitches has been pretty solid overall (4.49 career ERA).
7/12/2010 1:06 AM
eeyore1959
Posts: 357 (0)
Hall of Famer
62 67 36
Prospect
Had great splits (80s) for a pitcher once, but the pitches stunk, and so did the results. Pitches over ratings, production over all.
7/12/2010 12:13 PM
aaronwayne
Posts: 397 (0)
Hall of Famer
420 1 239
Prospect
How about this guy:  He's 18, currently rated at 60 overall, projects to 86.

His current splits are:  60L, 62R, but they project out to 91L and 91R.  His currently control is 65 and projects out to 96.  Should have plenty of stamina to be a 7 IP+ type of starter.  So, with splits and control projections to the 90's (remember his still only 18) his pitches are as follows:

P1:  56/64   P2:  58/65   P3:  35/48    P4:  39/50    P5:  21/32

As you can see, all of his pitches leave a lot to be desired so I really don't know what to make of him.  I've got him in Low A where he's got an ERA of 2.48, a WHIP of 1.17 in 29IP with 27 K's to 4 walks.  He's also allowed 30 hits. 

Meant to say I have him in High A , sorry.  


7/13/2010 5:13 PM (edited)
kcden
Posts: 1635 (0)
Hall of Famer
1 58 368 177
Prospect
So I've been wanting to hear some opinions on this guy, and this is probably as good a place as any... anyone have info/gut feeling for what to expect from Brian Dickerson?  I've got about a year of him in ML now, but with the small sample size and severe hitter's park (Hartford) I'm still trying to figure out if he's viable long-term.  He's got about as good of overall pitches as I have seen, with good control, velocity & GB rating, so I feel like he should be quite good.  Anyone think I'm way off-base?
7/12/2010 6:01 PM
soxfan121
Posts: 82 (0)
Hall of Famer
61
Prospect
Posted by eeyore1959 on 7/12/2010 12:13:00 PM (view original):
Had great splits (80s) for a pitcher once, but the pitches stunk, and so did the results. Pitches over ratings, production over all.
I'd love a link to this player. 

I've got a guy in MLB, Britt Swindell, who has 90+ splits and pitches of (roughly) 65-70-60-50 and he's racked up 5 (IIRC) Cy Youngs and World Series rings. 

So, IMO, it's splits and control over pitches, production overall.
7/12/2010 6:13 PM
oriolemagic
Posts: 253 (0)
Hall of Famer
1 10 93 95
Prospect
In a hitters park, http://www.whatifsports.com/HBD/Pages/Popups/PlayerProfile.aspx?pid=356005 has done pretty good for me (mid 3's era) with lower splits and good ptiches
7/13/2010 4:31 PM
MikeT23
Posts: 58012 (0)
Hall of Famer
87 1 47 1 189
Prospect
Pitching is very difficult to analyze.  Too many moving parts.   It's almost impossible to say "My 55/56 pitcher with 95/83/74 pitches has been fantastic.  Pitches over splits!" or "My 85/85 pitcher with 71/68/54 pitches has been fantastic.  Splits over pitches!!!"   If you don't know the defense behind them, the parks they pitch in or the competition they face, your single example is worthless.   I'd even add that ignoring control, velocity and GB makes your conclusion(s) even less useful.
7/13/2010 4:50 PM
MikeT23
Posts: 58012 (0)
Hall of Famer
87 1 47 1 189
Prospect
And, for the record, I'd never use a pitcher in the bigs with 60/50/50 pitches regardless of splits.   I would use the 60/65 split guy but I'd want better pitches.   At best, the 60/65 with 70/60/60 is just a long reliever or set-up B.   Most likely, he lives his life in AAA hoping for an injury to a good pitcher.
7/13/2010 4:53 PM
12 Next ▸
Splits and Pitches Topic
△Top△Bottom

Search Criteria

Terms of Use Customer Support Privacy Statement

© 1999-2026 WhatIfSports.com, Inc. All rights reserved. WhatIfSports is a trademark of WhatIfSports.com, Inc. SimLeague, SimMatchup and iSimNow are trademarks or registered trademarks of Electronic Arts, Inc. Used under license. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.