Releasing Arbitration Elgible Players Topic

ltlbird3
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Will you be required to pay their contract for that year? Multiple years? Nothing at all?

Can't find anything in the knowledge base about it...
7/26/2010 10:48 AM
schedule1
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if a salary is showing as $0 and you release before arb ends, you won't have to pay anything.
7/26/2010 10:53 AM
iain
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Put another way: You're responsible for the remaining salary of any player you release.

A player who is due arbitration (but hasn't been through arb. yet) shows a $0 salary, so that's all you are due to pay him if you release him.
7/26/2010 2:11 PM
toddcommish
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Just because you don't want someone who might be 3rd on your depth chart doesn't mean that you shouldn't try to trade him. Releasing should be a last option because you don't get anything for him.

I did a sign-and-trade for a player (it might have even been with sked) where I traded away a player just before his arb case.  I worked out the arb offer, and as soon as the arb case was finalized (I won and saved sked around $1M), I shipped him off.
7/26/2010 2:13 PM
schedule1
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i've been on both sides of those deals.
7/26/2010 2:37 PM
kahrtmen
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Posted by toddcommish on 7/26/2010 2:13:00 PM (view original):
Just because you don't want someone who might be 3rd on your depth chart doesn't mean that you shouldn't try to trade him. Releasing should be a last option because you don't get anything for him.

I did a sign-and-trade for a player (it might have even been with sked) where I traded away a player just before his arb case.  I worked out the arb offer, and as soon as the arb case was finalized (I won and saved sked around $1M), I shipped him off.
This is good advice but just keep in mind that there are usually lots of owners trying to dump their unwanted arb-eligible players, so it can be tough to work out a deal sometimes, especially with so little time between setting the budget and the arb hearings.
7/26/2010 2:44 PM
MikeT23
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I've never understood why anyone would give anything of value for arb-el player.   Sure, I'll give you a 25th man-type but that's it.  If I need your reject that badly, I've got bigger issues.

7/26/2010 2:46 PM
schedule1
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i've released a few guys in arb who have gone for a ton of money.  it could be better to give up a prospect than it would be to try to bid on someone in the open market. different teams have different positional and budgetary needs.
7/26/2010 2:54 PM
MikeT23
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I disagree.  It's better for you to get a prospect for a guy you don't want but it's not that good for me.    You aren't releasing a 3-time All-Star or current MVP.   You're releasing someone who can easily be replaced by someone in your system.    If there's that much of a disparity in our systems, I damn sure don't need to help you replenish yours by giving you another prospect.

Part of strengthening me is weakening you(or any of my competitors).

Of course, this is why I think it's stupid for weak teams to trade with powerhouses even when it's a fair deal.   Inevitably, the powerhouse is dealing older, expensive for youth.   Thus his dynasty is continued. 
7/26/2010 4:11 PM
iain
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In my experience, that's by far the exception, sched... and it's usually when you're trying to fill several needs on a tight-ish budget.

The rule is that people are willing to pay the same (good) guys, and if "you" (the generic owner who's not me) aren't willing to pay him, I'm probably not willing to, either.
7/26/2010 4:13 PM
dmurphy104
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Posted by MikeT23 on 7/26/2010 2:46:00 PM (view original):

I've never understood why anyone would give anything of value for arb-el player.   Sure, I'll give you a 25th man-type but that's it.  If I need your reject that badly, I've got bigger issues.

That's quite the generalization, Mike. The current owner may not have the 8 mil or whatever to pay the all-star arb-eligible player. Working out a deal can save you millions vs going after the guy in the open market.

I usually dont bother trying to deal my crappy run of the mil arb-eligible guys, but there are plenty of good arb-eligible guys that hit the market.

7/26/2010 4:26 PM
MikeT23
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And, if he can't pay A/S-caliber players, his team is too f'ing strong now.   Giving him a top-flight prospect to replenish his system is not thinking big picture.
7/26/2010 4:31 PM
dmurphy104
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Posted by MikeT23 on 7/26/2010 4:31:00 PM (view original):
And, if he can't pay A/S-caliber players, his team is too f'ing strong now.   Giving him a top-flight prospect to replenish his system is not thinking big picture.
You are assuming--incorrectly in many cases

1) He's trading him because he cant pay him. All-star caliber players get traded all the time

2) You're giving up prospects to get him. Presumably the arb-eligible guy isnt on the decline yet. So trading an arb-eligible player for a prospect isnt nearly as bad as trading the 35 year old for last year's first rounder.

Too many generalizations to be looking big picture. In KP I made a deal that netted me an arb-eligible player (86 overall 28 year old)+ an older #3 starter with a $5m salary for the current year only and  a good 21 yr old 3b prospect for 3 prospects. One was my 1st rounder last season, the other 2 are good--but not great prospects.  I will be competing for a WS this season and presumably the next few. The team I traded with isnt close to competing. 

I understand you took your stand and you wont likely change your stance. But a set in stone policy about trading for arb-eligible players is just silly.
7/26/2010 4:54 PM
taz21
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Not everyone thinks big picture, some are in a "go for it all" this year mode, and will deal w/ the future next year.

There are many cases where someone's arb. eligible players is worth a prospect to them.  Perhaps its some ones so-so propsect that is due 6 mil that they don't want to pay, but your thinking long term knowing that you can get type B compensation for him when he hits free agency next year, so you trade away a middling prospect in hopes of getting a Type B comp pick for taking on the guy's salary for 1 season.  There are plenty of guys w/ high overalls that may not be worth the 6-8 mil they're asking for in year 3 of arbitration, but are worth the 1 mil you can sign them for late in spring training.

Or perhaps its a 3rd catcher in the NL who has no other position to play on your team other than as a $6 mil backup to your recent IFA stud.  Perhaps he'd be a starter somewhere else or an AL DH/backup catcher type for a team more than willign to sign him long term.

I'd always try to work out a trade w/ an arbitration kid before releasing them.  If a trade doesn't work out, then just cut him and move on.
7/26/2010 4:58 PM
MikeT23
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No one said it was set in stone.  I just said I'm not giving up good prospects for arb-el guys you don't want to pay.   If they're that important, I'll bid on them in FA.   I'm just not helping the team that would rather release an All-Star than pay him.  

Of course, I'm pretty sure we have different viewpoints on "rebuilding" and "tanking". 
7/26/2010 4:59 PM
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