This caught my eye in yesterday's developer chat (esp. the sentence I've highlighted in blue):

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All else being equal, what has more of an effect on turnovers - ballhandling or passing? It seems like if you are a good passer, in the right situation, you shouldn't turn the ball over much (i.e., a C generally will not be "handling the ball"). On the other hand, a PG with poor passing skills should throw a lot of balls away regardless of how good of a cross over he has. (dukenilnil - Veteran - 3:06 PM)

It depends on the situation and the type of offense you're running. For example, a Flex and Triangle favor passing over dribbling, so it's better to have strong passers.

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I've long struggled to perceive any significant differences in the three "standard" offenses available (flex/triangle/motion).  I know they're described differently, and occasionally on the forums someone will post a statement about something they think works best in a certain offensive set, but I'll confess I've never been convinced by any of it (nor really by the sentence in blue above).

What about everyone else?  Has anyone ever taken a hard (data-focused) look at any specific differences in how the offenses perform (and what characteristics are more important in one than the other)?  There's always lots of discussion about the different defenses, but in my mind, the three standard offenses are still all essentially the same thing. 

Am I wrong?  Please, enlighten me!  :)

that caught my eye too-- i've always wondered which of the high-PA/med-BH vs high BH/med-PA guys I should take with the Triangle, or if it really made any difference. I'll accept this answer at face value until billyg comes in here with actual data and proves seble wrong...

i would have to argue that the logic itself about which offense favors bh/pa is flawed too.  a fastbreak is rarely one player dribbling the ball and making a layup.  often times there are 2, 3, even 4 tic tac toe passes that go into it, and sometimes in a good fastbreak the ball never even touches the court. 

I put a ? in about the user notes, that as far as I know the offense and defense descriptions have not been updated since I started the game, and that at best, they were suspect.  I requested that seble updates them.  I think this might stimulate some discussion, as well as help those serious coach's who want to spend time learning the game, take some of the perception of randomness out of the game.  

If other's agree, send tickets in asking for such.  I would guess after the chat, seble is putting together a rather large to do list.  This idea would not require any changes to the engine, and could be accomplished fairly easily I would guess.

I saw that statement as well and it confused me.

How can the motion offense, which is predicated on all five players on the floor being able to pass the ball, not  be included as having passing more important than dribbling the ball?

When is BH more important if not during a motion offense.

Posted by reinsel on 11/5/2010 1:22:00 PM (view original):
When is BH more important if not during a motion offense.

I tend to agree with this line of thinking.  In a real motion offense, big men are most commonly playing "high-low" and setting screens out around the free throw line and then rolling off of those screens towards the basket.  They would need some BH ability to take the ball from passes off of the "pick and roll" and get it to the hoop, but they aren't going to be passing as much as they might in a triangle, where they tend to stay down low, receive the ball down low and pass it back out of the shot isn't there.  I would think in a motion offense, finding big men with good athleticism and BH would be important.

Thanks for the responses, guys.  Amazing that this remains largely a mystery after all these years. 

OR, more helpful info on the Hoops 101 pages is a great idea.  I tried submitting a ticket today to follow up on the dev chat one-liner, but got the usual "Yes, there are differences.  Read the Hoops 101 page for more info..." sort of reply.

mduncanhogs, your observation makes sense, but unfortunately there's the very real possibility that "a real motion offense" bears no resemblance to the HD motion offense. 

I think Flex and Triangle greatly favor passing over ballhandling at all 5 positions. I've found that I've seen my passing bigs do much better in a Triangle than a Flex, and much better in a Flex than a Motion. That's just me, and I don't have quite the experience as others do however.

Posted by wronoj on 11/5/2010 9:58:00 AM (view original):
that caught my eye too-- i've always wondered which of the high-PA/med-BH vs high BH/med-PA guys I should take with the Triangle, or if it really made any difference. I'll accept this answer at face value until billyg comes in here with actual data and proves seble wrong...

No offense to any other coach playing, but I would take what Billy G says about the different offenses as being as close to gospel as you can get.  First of all, he's been ultra-successful in a very short period of time and has obviously studied the offenses in great detail.  Plus, I've learned a great deal just by reading what he's posted, not even to mention reviewing the games after he's demolished me on the court.  He's just that good........

I dont know alot about it and billy g is my mentor.   I feel that if ran properly the triangle is the most effective.  I see the most dominate teams utilize it.  I have 3 titles all using motion and am trying to win one with triangle.  I am not smart enough to save and analyze data but from what I see each can be made to be effective its just knowing how to do so.  And also cs is never wrong!!!!!  j/k

Just a personal opinion here, take it with a grain of salt.  Between my ID's, I've won eight titles.  I've got two with Motion, three with Triangle, and three with Flex (in all my seasons, I've never once had a Fastbreak team, never, not even for a season).  I personally can't stand Motion (still haven't really got a handle on setting the distro for it.  I'm getting better, but I've still got a ways to go yet), find the Triangle the easiest to recruit for, but find Flex to be the most effective.  Like I said, just my opinion and should be taken with the aforementioned grain of Sodium Chloride...........

Anyone here a motion expert?  I kinda sorta maybe think I am starting to get a handle on it with FGC.

Posted by mduncanhogs on 11/5/2010 1:39:00 PM (view original):

Posted by reinsel on 11/5/2010 1:22:00 PM (view original):
When is BH more important if not during a motion offense.

I tend to agree with this line of thinking.  In a real motion offense, big men are most commonly playing "high-low" and setting screens out around the free throw line and then rolling off of those screens towards the basket.  They would need some BH ability to take the ball from passes off of the "pick and roll" and get it to the hoop, but they aren't going to be passing as much as they might in a triangle, where they tend to stay down low, receive the ball down low and pass it back out of the shot isn't there.  I would think in a motion offense, finding big men with good athleticism and BH would be important.

This doesn't make sense to me.  If you are running a high low motion, the post should never have to handle the ball, just catch and pass.  But really that's how it should be in all of them.  This just shows us the issue, we have no clue how these offenses really work.  There are a million different variations of all these offenses and we are left to guess what is actually taking place on the court.

There are several different types of motion offenses that can utilize a big man to a very small lineup with no LP presence at all.