At what point is tanking cheating? Topic

I was originally submitting this as a ticket, but I don't think my ticket was going through, and then I decided, maybe I should just put it on the forum to discuss, anyway.  I've been in this world since the very beginning (and this world has been around since almost the very beginning), but it's issues like this that most make me consider just eventually quitting (since it's an issue of fair play).  So here it is:

At what point can we have an owner booted for tanking?  tjonesxx has been the owner of Burlington Bordellas ( Hardball Dynasty – Fantasy Baseball Sim Games - Burlington Bordellas Franchise Profile ) in our AL and has had winning percents of .315, .259, and .348 (the last one is through 46 games).  He has openly discussed the fact that he is purposely not trying to make his ML team better (his justification is that it's better for the "long term health" of his franchise).  Then he proceeded to do sketchy things like signing a MAJOR free agent to a huge $75 million deal only to immediately trade him for prospects (essentially abusing the whole concept of budgeting - the player is  Hardball Dynasty – Fantasy Baseball Sim Games - Player Profile: Gaylord Woodall).

In real life his team would be making no money from fans and would forever be out of the running, but because the sim gives everyone the same budget (which is probably not the best system, but we live with it), he can choose to just throw away the last few seasons in order to construct a super team that just wouldn't be possible in real life (and this sim is supposed to simulate real life, isn't it?).

I know in the past that .250 was discussed as a cut-off point to boot someone for any individual season, but shouldn't there be a cumulative cut-off, too?  If he has a third consecutive 100 loss season (which he's on pace to do), can we finally kick him out?  You're going to end up in a situation where the long-term owners in this league won't want to play anymore because essentially some newbie came in and cheated his way to the top.
11/23/2010 7:39 PM
As far as I know, there's nothing you can do since it's a public world.  My suggestion is to join a solid private world that have anti-tanking rules.
11/23/2010 7:46 PM
Rizzuto is a public world.   .250 is the rule.    If he is openly saying "I'm not trying to win games", I'd document it and send it in a ticket.  Not sure if that will get you anywhere but WifS does frown on intentional losing just a tiny bit.  Sadly, for you, a public world gets what they get BECAUSE they can't keep the riffraff out.
11/23/2010 7:46 PM
Unfortunately it was last season or the season before that he said stuff like that - I'll ask if anyone saved it.  I really should have saved it, but stupidly hoped that he was only talking about the one season or two.  And now I think the sketchy FA signing / trade was particularly annoying.
11/23/2010 8:01 PM

I am in 2 worlds with tjonesxx.  Rizzuto and ARomano which is private.  He pulls the same crap in both worlds.  Not to mention he may have owned more than one franchise.  In aromano season 17 he made 11 trades with one franchise.  He also had the same log in times for over a week between three franchises and two worlds.  there were at least 2 dozen times but WiS said they weren't the same users.  He has been called out in the world chat in both leagues and now all of the log in times are radically different. 

11/23/2010 8:12 PM
Don't know what his record was when ARomano let him in but, if you let a guy join your world with his record, you can't complain too long about what he does.

Rizzuto BUR Bordellas 16 $23.5M 51-111 (.315) 4 -
Rizzuto BUR Bordellas 17 $16.5M 42-120 (.259) 4 -
Rizzuto BUR Bordellas 18 - 16-30 (.348) - -
F.Y.C. COL Cholera 12 $88.5M 58-104 (.358) 4 -
F.Y.C. COL Cholera 13 $63.9M 57-105 (.352) 4 -
F.Y.C. COL Cholera 14 $23.3M 57-105 (.352) 4 -
F.Y.C. COL Cholera 15 $16.2M 46-116 (.284) 4 -
F.Y.C. COL Cholera 16 $48.7M 82-80 (.506) 1 -
F.Y.C. COL Cholera 17 - 75-75 (.500) - -
ARomano TEX Cyclones 7 $34.5M 42-120 (.259) 4 -
ARomano TEX Cyclones 8 $16.0M 56-106 (.346) 4 -
ARomano TEX Cyclones 9 $14.0M 43-119 (.265) 4 -
11/23/2010 8:27 PM
Wow, he was over .500 one season in FYC?
11/23/2010 11:12 PM
I think as far as the .250 rule goes,sometimes they enforce it and sometimes they don't. I guess it depends on how much noise you make. You know, squeeky wheel gets the grease.
I do think that when he stated that he wasn't trying to win games you should of reported him.I do think they would of expelled him for that.
11/23/2010 11:28 PM
Here is the part of the fair play guidelines I would use. you can't use it during the season, but if the owner tries to renew.

"For the balance and enjoyment of the world and its participants, however, it is not permitted to intentionally field an overly atrocious team when a much better team could have been assembled at the same cost and time commitment. For instance, it's no more difficult to field a healthy team in Hardball Dynasty that can win 50 games than it is to field a team that can win 30 games."

I just went through this in a world I commish.

The owner had a 15 overall rated reliever on his roster Vin Rocker, 36ish overall 3rd basemen(who he has since jettisoned) starting, another reliever with a 31  overall rating, and he had a LF with a 27 Pitch calling starting at catcher while his catcher with a 80+ PC was sitting on the bench. He was also 17 million under the cap and had a better 3rd basemen sitting on the bench.......

I sent a ticket to WIS but I told them I did not wish the owner removed yet, I just wanted a written record of his history submitted in a ticket. However if the owner would of persisted I would of argued that he could of greatly increased his chances of winning at the same cost and commitment.

My suggestion is since it is a public world to start a ticket and update the ticket every time this owner does something towards tanking. Document as much as you can.
11/24/2010 8:26 AM
Looking at his roster, that probably won't apply.   He hasn't populated it with overly terrible players.   He's just loaded down with players who'd occupy the 23rd-25th spots on most rosters. 
11/24/2010 8:31 AM
I have signed free agents before with the idea that I would try and shop that player around. I think its a good strategy if your rebuilding and you only lose a 2nd round pick for a Type A Free Agent . You can basically upgrade your 2nd round pick to a supplemental quality player, or even a late first round quality player, plus you know exactly what your getting unlike the draft you might not get what you want.
11/24/2010 8:32 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 11/24/2010 8:31:00 AM (view original):
Looking at his roster, that probably won't apply.   He hasn't populated it with overly terrible players.   He's just loaded down with players who'd occupy the 23rd-25th spots on most rosters. 
He had a 3rd basemen with a 36 overall rating who started the first 40 games of the season, that player is no longer on the roster. He also started his LF at catcher for 40 games. You are now seeing the aftermath, I would say once someone noticed what he was doing 10+ owners complained and he made some changes..
11/24/2010 8:33 AM
Which means he understands how to game the system and keep his team.    You don't have to win 20 games to get first pick, you have to win one less than the next worse player.
11/24/2010 8:40 AM
Here is the guy he was playing at 3RD base Dion Mateo

The guy he was playing at Catcher Vladimir Nunez

The guys on the bench he was not playing.

Sterling House .....Not a stud but better than who he was starting.

Sammy Easly


Best name ever?

11/24/2010 8:53 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 11/24/2010 8:40:00 AM (view original):
Which means he understands how to game the system and keep his team.    You don't have to win 20 games to get first pick, you have to win one less than the next worse player.
yep, he knows how to game the system, most experienced owners do know how to game the system. As I said, WIS rules states what I posted above. Since he can find tryout camp pitchers better than that one pitcher for the same cost and time commitment he is violating the play fair guidelines......If it was just that 1 pitcher I don't think anyone would of complained, it was all of the above. All of the above would of probably been a strong case, especially if the whole world caused a uproar.
11/24/2010 8:56 AM
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At what point is tanking cheating? Topic

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