Increase Injury Rate to Overused Pitchers Topic

soursurfer
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Often teams with little depth in their rotation will give their workhorse ace a start every time he's at 100%. While it makes every bit of sense for them to do this, you end up with guys making 40 starts a year and throwing 270 IP a year, every year.

Then you get to the playoffs, where it becomes even more ridiculous. A Game 1 starter might throw 100 pitches and turn around and be at 100% for Game 3. That's 2 days' rest!

Now of course the owner is doing what's best for his team, but no matter what the pitchers' STA/DUR ratings, shouldn't there be some sort of drawback to throwing a guy on 2 days' rest? A heightened risk of injury would at least make owners give it a second thought.
4/16/2011 10:38 AM
shobob
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Shouldn't you just ask that they scale back the number of 90 sta 35 dur pitchers created then?
4/16/2011 11:00 AM
soursurfer
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It's not just 90/35 guys though. An 86/27 pitcher just pitched Games 1 and 3 against me. There's 2 options I suppose. Correct the pitching fatigue model to be a bit more realistic, or try to discourage owners from doing something that wouldn't (couldn't?) happen in real life. Or at least would run the risk of injury.
4/16/2011 12:20 PM
dlmose
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I gotta ask, did you win both of those games?
4/16/2011 10:59 PM
strikeout26
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I see. So, you lost two games in the playoffs and got ****** about it?
4/16/2011 10:59 PM
pstrnutbag44
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Posted by soursurfer on 4/16/2011 12:20:00 PM (view original):
It's not just 90/35 guys though. An 86/27 pitcher just pitched Games 1 and 3 against me. There's 2 options I suppose. Correct the pitching fatigue model to be a bit more realistic, or try to discourage owners from doing something that wouldn't (couldn't?) happen in real life. Or at least would run the risk of injury.
The game may have changed in reccent years, but for the majority of the history of organized baseball, this (SP starting games 1 & 3 of a series) has been fairly common.
4/17/2011 10:53 AM
MikeT23
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It's just part of the sim.  I had an 11/79 pitcher who worked out of the bullpen all year(2 GS out of 46 appearances).    In 10 playoff games, he made 3 starts.  I just couldn't carry an 11 DUR as a SP in the regular season.
4/17/2011 1:13 PM
soursurfer
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Yes, it is a bit of sour grapes, but I played the same team last year, he did the same thing in Games 1 and 3, and I swept him.  Could have brought it up then but I don't think he was at 100% in Game 3 last year so the owner WAS assuming some risk in putting him back on the mound on such short rest.  Anyway, the results aren't as important to me as the realism.  As pstrnutbag suggests, it may have been common once upon a time, but it just doesn't happen any more.  You might see a guy go on 3 days rest, but 2 would be considered superhuman in this day and age. EDIT: Assuming both of those are starts, that is.

Mike, in your example, I assume the guy got a healthy number of off-days between those starts.  That would be fine.  It's these guys who bounce back on minimal rest and are none the worse for wear.
4/18/2011 10:02 AM (edited)
MikeT23
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My point was he started 30% of my playoff games and, despite being on the roster all season, started only 1.2% of my regular season games.   Teams don't do that.  Probably never have.   It's just part of the sim.
4/18/2011 10:25 AM
soursurfer
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Well, yes, there are a lot of ways that Sim Baseball differs from real baseball.  One would hope Sim Baseball would not allow for nearly impossible feats of strength without some drawbacks, though.  Could I envision, say, C.C. Sabathia starting Games 1 and 3 in the MLB playoffs?  Sure I could.  But how many times could you go to that well before you started seeing some negative consequences?
4/18/2011 10:56 AM
MikeT23
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I understand what you're saying but I'm just saying that sim games are run by a program.  If a guy is 100%, he's 100%.    We have the power to manipulate the game to suit our needs. 
4/18/2011 11:16 AM
soursurfer
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Yeah, I get that.  I don't fault the owner for starting the guy...he was his best option to win and he was ready to go.  I'm merely suggesting one option to try and make the game line up a bit better with the real life version it tries to, at least on some levels, emulate.
4/18/2011 11:41 AM
MikeT23
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What you're asking for is a change to the fatigue engine(which has been tweaked hundreds of times).    However, if his pitcher is back to 100% after 100 pitches now and they change the engine, he'll lower the PC.   Then he'll still start him in game 3.
4/18/2011 11:48 AM
soursurfer
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Right, but that would at least put his IP in a more realistic zone.  Right now, through 4 playoff games for that team, the pitcher in question has pitched 18 of the 36 IP.

Though actually my suggestion is a bit different.  The fatigue model could stay the same, but there could be an additional variable on each starter.  "Days since last start".  The lower this number when he starts again, the higher the injury rate.  4 days since his last start?  Normal injury rate.  3?  Slightly higher injury rate.  2?  Enough of an injury rate boost to make the owner give it a second thought before tossing his ace again on such short rest.

So yes he COULD start again after 2 days rest since he's at 100%, but SHOULD he?

And yes I realize WIS is pretty opposed to adding such a mechanic into the game.  But one can dream.

4/18/2011 11:57 AM
strikeout26
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Adding an extra injury boost is not realistic either. Arm injuries in real life don't happen over night. They happen over a long period of time. I am pretty sure that if C.C. threw games 1 and 3 of a series he would not get injured. he just probably wouldnt have his best stuff.
4/18/2011 12:08 PM
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