Wooden holds its championship game tonight and for the 16th straight season the national champion is going to be from either the Big 12 or the Big East.  In those sixteen seasons only 4 schools from other conferences have even played for the national title.

This season the Big 12/Big East have combined to earn almost 44% of the National Tournament money.  That's 7 percent of the teams earning 44% of the money.  It's essentially like this every season, with these two conferences getting the lion's share (or the whole pride's share) of tournament money, then getting the best recruits, then dominating the tournament again the next year.  Rinse, repeat.

I'm in one other world, Smith, and in that world the SEC is the Superconference.  Now, there is no other monster conference in that world, so despite the fact that the SEC dominates in Conference RPI every year and brings in an astounding haul in tournament money every year, they just don't have enough members to take every single great recruit, and so other schools are able to find success.  Still, the pattern is consistent with what's happening in Smith.

It seems to me that when the recruit generation changed, that the conferences who were currently on top were able to use that advantage to create a stranglehold on D1 -- one that seems almost impossible to break. 

I can only see Wooden and Smith.  Is this true in other worlds?  

Some time ago I did a little research and from the time a world "matured" (which is to say that humans had controlled all the A+ baseline programs for at least a few years) to the time that the new prospect generation was instituted, 15% of teams that battled for the national title where from non-BCS conferences in Wooden and Smith.  Now, one might argue that number is too high, but I'll argue that 0% is definitely too low.  First, it's not realistic.  We've had 3 mid-major teams make the Final Four in the last 2 seasons in the NCAA.  Can any mid-major make a Final Four in HD anymore?  It sure seems impossible in Smith and Wooden.  And that's the 2nd reason why 0% is too low a number for non-BCS schools.  It's driving coaches away from the game.

I'd say that if recruit generation does not change, that I could make a list of 30 schools in Wooden that have a chance to win the national championship in the next 10 seasons.  The rest do not.  Perhaps I am too conservative, 30 may be too many.  The rest are just cannon fodder.  No wonder D1 is becoming a vast wasteland -- it's not fun to know that you have no chance to win.  And that's the real reason this is a problem -- it's costing WIS money.

We can argue back and forth about what the game should be like, but in the final analysis, the game that attracts the most players -- and makes the most money -- should be WIS's goal.  Right now the elitist nature of the current game is driving coaches away, and the maddening thing to me is, it's happening precisely at the time when the real life game couldn't be more populist. 

What If Sports:  What if Butler, Virginia Commenwealth or George Mason were able to make the Final Four?  Oh yeah, they really are able to make the Final Four -- just not in this game.

I really enjoy this game.  I like a lot about the new(ish) engine.  But I can't believe this major issue has not been corrected.

Yeah, in Crum, the ACC and Big 10 are typically dominant as  whole but the Pac 10 always puts up a few great teams. Right now, those conferences account for 16/25 ranked DI teams, including 1 through 4.

In Iba, the Big 12 and ACC hold 13 of the top 25 spots, including 7 in the top 10

ACC in Allen:

Conference RPI - ACC .6649.  2nd place is the Big-10 at .5917.

drsnell - valid points which are falling on deaf ears at WIS HQ.

In Crum, all ranked teams are high-majors and only two mid-majors are receiving votes.

Posted by alblack56 on 7/17/2011 6:47:00 AM (view original):
In Iba, the Big 12 and ACC hold 13 of the top 25 spots, including 7 in the top 10

I only play one world and DO NOT  that as a problem in Iba. Yes those conferences are top this year but they have won only 7 of last 20 titles in IBA. It is a bit unusual because the strongest conf has been the A-10 They seem to be on a bit of a decline now., National champs in last 20 seasons in Iba is as follows.


A10 -7
Big 12 - 4
ACC- 3
SEC - 2
Big East - 2
Big 10 - 1
WCC - 1 (yes Lipscomb)

This world is very cyclical.. The Big East had three final four teams last year but only has one top 15 team this season.

NC Runners up
A10 -6
Big East -  5
Big 12 - 3
ACC - 2
SEC - 1
WCC - 1
Southland -1   SE Louisiana
Patriot - 1  Holy Cross

Seems like the little guys are showing up often enough here

I don't think it's actually recruit generation that has caused this. I think it's people who play the game being stuck in their ways and because they thought recruit generation sucks when you're not in a BCS conference so the lower levels of D1 are very empty. It's even hard to get people to take over the weaker BCS schools because of the perceived disadvantages.
 
If you put the best coaches in a mid major conference where they were the only human coach do you think they would still have success? Of course they would. What ACN posted I've seen the occasional post talking about how great a D1 conference is ever since I started playing this game so it's nothing new. I do admit it happens more often these days but I think it's more of a perception thing then an actual fault in recruit generation.

In Tark the ACC and Big East have dominated for a long time and the Pac 10 and Big 12 have always been very solid conferences but now the Big Ten and SEC are also beginning to be threats, showing that the stranglehold can be broken. The biggest test of this is the SEC in Phelan, last season the conference earned a total of 60k postseason money and I've been there for I think 8 seasons and we've never even gotten 15k per team in my time. Problem is the Big 12 and the ACC are the 2 best conferences and it makes it tough for the SEC schools to breakthrough. It's to the point where LSU has been empty for 5 seasons simply because the conference isn't good and LSU has turned to crap and it's a very tough rebuild now.

the SEC in Tark is only starting to get good because 5 of us got together to pay 5 coaches to join and fill the conference. Without 10-12 active humans you are going nowhere. In Rupp I'm in that CUSA experiment with 11 vastly superior coaches - we'll see if the group of us reach our elite goal. So far, 3 seasons in...just getting started. 

Posted by acn24 on 7/17/2011 8:29:00 AM (view original):
ACC in Allen:

North Standings

 

	School	Coach	Conf. W-L	Overall W-L	Home W-L	Road W-L	Top 25 W-L	Last 10	STRK	RPI	SOS
	#1 UNC	girt25	5-1	15-1	3-0	12-1	5-1	9-1	L1	3	8
	#7 Duke	acn24	5-2	15-2	5-2	10-0	5-2	8-2	W5	6	9
	#13 Miami (FL)	kyle_lee7	4-2	13-3	8-1	5-2	2-3	7-3	L2	12	11
	#25 Georgia Tech	djbrewer0808	4-3	13-4	4-1	9-3	1-4	6-4	W2	13	14
	#23 Virginia	wang35	2-4	12-4	3-2	9-2	1-4	6-4	W2	7	5
	Virginia Tech	aporter	0-6	9-7	5-3	4-4	0-5	4-6	L6	35	10

 

 

 

 

 

South Standings

 

	School	Coach	Conf. W-L	Overall W-L	Home W-L	Road W-L	Top 25 W-L	Last 10	STRK	RPI	SOS
	#15 Maryland	viperhoops	5-2	13-4	9-0	4-4	5-2	8-2	W4	4	3
	#18 N. Carolina St.	fmschwab	4-3	14-3	2-1	12-2	3-3	7-3	W1	10	20
	#12 Boston College	brikeisco	4-3	14-3	2-1	12-2	3-2	7-3	W1	14	35
	#11 Clemson	kelby_03	3-4	13-4	5-1	8-3	4-3	6-4	L3	5	4
	Wake Forest	farmlife	3-4	12-5	4-3	8-2	2-5	6-4	L1	30	29
	Florida St.	mtallen2020	1-6	7-10	6-3	1-7	1-7	3-7	L6	49	6

Conference RPI - ACC .6649.  2nd place is the Big-10 at .5917.

there's gotta be 5 more wins there somewhere for aporter...

It is definitely true in Phelan, where strangely nobody seems interested in joining the A-10.  Big 6 conferences completely dominate and only the Mountain West has consistently produced good teams outside of the BCS leagues

Posted by kmasonbx on 7/17/2011 11:00:00 AM (view original):
I don't think it's actually recruit generation that has caused this. I think it's people who play the game being stuck in their ways and because they thought recruit generation sucks when you're not in a BCS conference so the lower levels of D1 are very empty. It's even hard to get people to take over the weaker BCS schools because of the perceived disadvantages.
 
If you put the best coaches in a mid major conference where they were the only human coach do you think they would still have success? Of course they would. What ACN posted I've seen the occasional post talking about how great a D1 conference is ever since I started playing this game so it's nothing new. I do admit it happens more often these days but I think it's more of a perception thing then an actual fault in recruit generation.

In Tark the ACC and Big East have dominated for a long time and the Pac 10 and Big 12 have always been very solid conferences but now the Big Ten and SEC are also beginning to be threats, showing that the stranglehold can be broken. The biggest test of this is the SEC in Phelan, last season the conference earned a total of 60k postseason money and I've been there for I think 8 seasons and we've never even gotten 15k per team in my time. Problem is the Big 12 and the ACC are the 2 best conferences and it makes it tough for the SEC schools to breakthrough. It's to the point where LSU has been empty for 5 seasons simply because the conference isn't good and LSU has turned to crap and it's a very tough rebuild now.

In response to this portion, "Problem is the Big 12 and the ACC are the 2 best conferences and it makes it tough for the SEC schools to breakthrough."

I feel I must stand up for my Big 10 comrades in Phelan, and take exception to this slight, and lack of respect. :) Granted, the ACC is tops, but I think the Big 10 is right there with the Big 12.

Last 12 seasons in Phelan: 

NT Victories
Big 10: 116
Big 12: 119

Final Fours:
Big 10: 10
Big 12: 9

National Runner-Ups:
Big 10: 3
Big 12: 3

National Champions:
Big 10: 4
Big 12: 4

Posted by oldresorter on 7/17/2011 11:44:00 AM (view original):
so km - what you are describing is a mass psychosis  - where near all coaches are 'stuck in their ways', and you uniquely are able to see the light, vs the commonly held opinion that single change was made to the game thats pupose was to make top end recruits better vs the middle, resulting in better top end teams vs the middle ... think about that - mass psychosis vs top end players creating top end teams - I think the answer is really obvious.

I'm not the only one who doesn't think things are really that bad, I'm just one of the very few who are willing to descent and make it known I'm fine with things. Simply because I'm in the minority and I'm vocal about it doesn't mean I'm wrong.

The thought is you have to be a big conference to be competitive, the fact is that's not true. Look at BYU in Tark, North Texas was the same way before Volcano decided he wanted to be in a conference with more humans. I'm confident if I was in a weak conference with few humans I'd still field a very solid team. I know any number of good coaches would do the same, it's not really that difficult. You guys make it sound impossible, and I don't even think it's that hard.

You for some reason want the top recruits to be worse and the middle tier to be better thus making a large # of recruits pretty similar, essentially brining the game back to where it was when there were way too many great players. I personally think that's a terrible idea, the game is so much better having some truely elite players. Look at how Tark was this season, how many A+ teams battled with each other? I saw Wake Forrest, Georgetown and Rutgers all have multiple battles with other A+ teams then you have teams like Kentucky and UNC who at least battled one other A+ school. The only A+ school that I can say with certainty that didn't battle another A+ is Duke, I"m not sure about UCONN and BC.

These type of battles are great for the game, if your system gets put into place then these battles happen far less frequently simply because why battle an A+ school when you can just sign a slightly weaker player for much cheaper? And now instead of just signing 1 stud you sign 2 or 2 instead of 3. So since the A+ schools are spending more money battling it out for the very best players it allows the next tier of schools to either beatout A+ schools for a stud simply because they've pumped a bunch of money into another recruit battling another A+ (I grabbed a 5* center from UK and Wake, Wake for this reason and UK because I had much more money) or the next tier gets to sign a better player than they normally do for cheap solely due to A+ schools battling out for the studs and not having enough money to battle an A- or B+ school for a very good player. Then there is just a trickle down where now the B and B- schools can get better guys. I feel just making the studs weaker and the good to very good players better creates a system where recruiting is very boring and gameplanning isn't as fun because everybody has similar players.

Over the last 13 seasons (46-58) in D1 Tark there have been 12 different schools to win a title only Rutgers has won 2, North Texas is the only non BCS school but BYU went to the title game 3 times and Central Florida once. So we've had 5 non BCS schools reach the title game in that span, not a ton but still a decent number for the time period. Seasons 33-45 saw 3 different teams win at least 2 titles with Texas A&M winning 3, seasons 20-32 saw 2 teams win at least 2. So it's not like the current recruit generation is allowing the top teams to be anymore dominant than in the past.

Posted by oldresorter on 7/17/2011 11:44:00 AM (view original):
so km - what you are describing is a mass psychosis  - where near all coaches are 'stuck in their ways', and you uniquely are able to see the light, vs the commonly held opinion that single change was made to the game thats pupose was to make top end recruits better vs the middle, resulting in better top end teams vs the middle ... think about that - mass psychosis vs top end players creating top end teams - I think the answer is really obvious.

Also there is a scientific term for this and it's called "the mob mentality" so don't act like it's unheard of or ridiculous what I'm suggesting.

Dac, I don't think it matters how you guys turned it around, the fact is that you did and it shows that if you have good coaches it doesn't matter your conference can break into the upper tier. Not that you guys are there yet but I'm sure you will be soon.