Gets completely oversold. Unless Colorado College in Phelan is just not in as good a spot as Colorado in any other world, for whatever reason. 

I'll admit it's not the hardest place I've ever recruited from, but it's not the easiest either. I always heard that there were a ton of drop-downs available, and that Colorado was in position to get a large number of them, because no other schools were in proximity. In five seasons there, I've only signed two drop/pulldowns. That's less than the number of targets on my D3 list that got snatched by higher-level programs. 

This season, there was an awesome SF on my D3 list. I grabbed him right away. The next morning, he was being fought over by a D2 school and a friggin' D1 school. But there was another pretty solid SF on my D3 list, and he was still not considering anyone, so I quickly got him considering me. The next cycle, yet another D2 school had taken him from me. 

This isn't me fighting D2 schools on pulldowns, this is them coming to fight me on D3 recruits. I admit, this is the first time I've ever had a D1 school take a four-year player from my D3 list. Have seen it with one-year transfers before, but not four-year guys. 

This is not me complaining about the D2 schools cheating or having it out for me or something. If there's a D3 player they like better than the D2 players, it's in their best interests to try and sign him. And it's not me complaining about a terrible recruiting class, because I think I mostly salvaged it. I'm just noticing that this place had a lot of advertised advantages that don't seem to be real. Not only is it very difficult to recruit a drop/pulldown, I have to compete with D2 schools on the D3 recruits. 

Just an observation. Anyone who's coached Colorado in other worlds noticed something similar, or is this just me? 

My experiences with Colorado were a while ago:

1. The first one (Naismith?) was early in my learning process.  I took the time with the google earth map to find out exactly where I was the closest D3 school to a recruit, and considered that my D3 'base'.  I didn't really understand pull downs at this stage, so the drop downs were nice within that bucket.  This was where I learned to wait until middle of day 2 before actions- if anyone came into my 'base', I could usually win that battle, and it was easier to know who I was fighting and with what first.

2. The second was the glorious SCIAC in Knight (yes, that one all over the top of RPI chart).  To be fair, it appears my successor really made the team better, but this was the best I have ever done in D3.  This time, I developed my 'base' concept one step further, and kept an eye on guys 100-300 miles outside of that zone: Many teams were afraid to fight at a distance, even if they had an advantage.  I had a great bit of conference money (I think we sent 7 teams to the NT one year, and two final four teams?), so that skews this a bit.  As long as I waited for the RMAC folks to get their targets, life was great.  I don't recall how many humans had RMAC schools or the front range DI schools, so maybe that was a hidden factor I missed.  But, as I said, this was my best D3 success BY FAR that I've ever had.

I think as has been said in other threads, part of this really depends on who's in the mountain time zone.  Are CU/CSU/Air Force/UNM human?  Are they elite?  I think it's a trickle down, when the in state DI schools are AI or elite, then they leave the recruits for the RMAC, who can leave recruits for CC.  Now a bad CU/CSU/AFA/UNM group added to a packed RMAC could mean trouble.

I didn't even think about the D1 schools. I did notice that there are 10 humans in the RMAC, and I tend to butt heads with the B and C prestige ones pretty often. And almost always lose those battles. That probably has a lot to do with it. 

hey tarvy,  heres my two cents..

I had allways assumed that, in theory,  Colorado College is one of the best d3 schools to recruit from.

i guess a real big part of that is how many humans are at the D2 colorado schools.  and i suppose the whole thing is a little "hit and miss" because even if upper level schools dont swoop in, there are still a fairly limited number of localish recruits (i assume)  and even if you have little competition for those dudes,  they may not have the skills you are looking for.

i think the best place i have ever been in D3 for recruiting is southern cal.  again,  that proabably depends on the number and quality of D2 schools that might compete for dropdowns and the quality and number of confmates who can compete.  I have been lucky in that tyler and colorado have been really good (which adds to my tourney bonus money) but , of course, they usually arent competing for the same recruits.  and, ive only been there a few years, so maybe i just got lucky and hit a stretch where thereve beena few more, and or better recruits.

upstate ny might as well be siberia in my opinion,  both for D3 and D1.   at d3 the only thing that saved me was alaska and hawaii.  at d1 the only thing that saved me was montreal.

greensboro seems pretty good too.   palm beach atlantic is supposed to be kinda like colorado,  but i havent found it to be that great so far.  not awful,  but not paradise either.

Ive thought about doing a whole thread about the easiest and most difficult places to recruit/win and the factors that go into that.



oh, by the way,  back to so cal,  is it just my imagination or are there waaaay more jucos from socal than other places?    is the distribution of jucos related to the real life distrobution of juco schools?   or related to the number of hd 4year schools nearby?

thats probably it tarvy,  im guessing that there are many worlds where the colorado d2 conference is nearly full of sims. i dont know that for sure,  just a guess.

yeah,  d1 going after a d3 juco is not all that unusual.... goin after d3 4year player does seem very odd.

trickle down of effect of d1 schools is something i really hadnt thought about asher.... good point

tarvolon - I am at Colorado in Wooden and was at Colorado many many year before you took over in Phelan. 

It depends on a number of factors, are the Colorado D2 schools SIMS or human? If they are human it definitely becomes more difficult. In the past I have recruited Kansas, Nebraska, even the Dakota's and Minnesota due to limited recruits. It is tough to move into California because of the high FSS cost and the distance advantage all the S. Cal teams have. 

Last year 10/12 guys on my team were from Colorado, often I have had to settle for decent guys as opposed to trying to reach for a stud.

oldave, FYI. I was a JUCO Coach in Cali for 10 years. There are now at least 95 JUCO's playing in Cali. More than all the nearby states total. They have their own NCAA type 64  team playoff. They do not offer schollies and do not belong to the NJCA. They are referred to as Community Colleges.

Dave - I would agree, my IBA CSU Eastbay team was able to pick up two great Juco's (Allen & Prosser, both over 700 overall) who definitely shouldn't be on a D3 squad. 

One time we sent 7 teams? I feel like 7 teams was the norm, and one year the entire Final 4 was the SoCal, I think that was one of the seasons La Verne won.

Yes, there are much more JUCOs in SoCal because in real life the biggest Junior College league in the country is in SoCal.

I actually thought recruiting Southern California was pretty tough when I had Caltech in Iba, but it probably didn't help that every single SoCal school was human-coached. I've also found Greensboro pretty tough, but that's because Wooden is slam-packed, but I know the Southeast can be really nice if the USA South and ODAC are relatively empty

tarvolon - We had a lot of good human coaches in that SoCal conference. It seems I am the only link between that regime and the new one. 

Posted by kmasonbx1 on 3/6/2014 11:30:00 AM (view original):
One time we sent 7 teams? I feel like 7 teams was the norm, and one year the entire Final 4 was the SoCal, I think that was one of the seasons La Verne won.

Yes, there are much more JUCOs in SoCal because in real life the biggest Junior College league in the country is in SoCal.

I decided to err on the side of caution instead of overstating :). 

Posted by gvsujulius on 3/6/2014 11:42:00 AM (view original):
tarvolon - We had a lot of good human coaches in that SoCal conference. It seems I am the only link between that regime and the new one. 

Yeah, that was a great conference. I'd still be there if it weren't for my alma mater opening up. Sad to see what happened to Caltech when I left. 

Posted by coachvegas44 on 3/6/2014 11:14:00 AM (view original):
oldave, FYI. I was a JUCO Coach in Cali for 10 years. There are now at least 95 JUCO's playing in Cali. More than all the nearby states total. They have their own NCAA type 64  team playoff. They do not offer schollies and do not belong to the NJCA. They are referred to as Community Colleges.

thanks for that.