I've been told that height has "zero" to do with the sim and is just there for sh*ts and giggles... If this is true, why is this so? 

I mean, they use height in the standard Simleague Basketball simulation, so I'm confused why there isn't a mechanic for it in Hoops Dynasty. Especially since it would drastically change the way recruiting is done. Maybe not drastically, but it certainly would add an interesting element that would force people to become a little more creative when it comes to size advantages. 

It doesn't directly impact anything, but there is a correlation between height and ratings like reb and I believe shotblocking.

The actual height listed is window dressing. The EFFECTS of height are incorporated into the ratings listed -- a shorter guy with a higher rebound and shot block can be assumed to have a better vertical leap ability, a subtler understanding of how to get into position to get rebounds, a higher low post rating means he uses his body to get in position better to receive passes, not get moved off his spot on the floor, etc. 

As rednu said, it's all incorporated, but the actual height listed is window dressing and nothing more.

I like it that way, knowing that I'm recruiting my players for their ratings and not worrying about how tall they are as that is already in the ratings.

I'm not a fan of it not being a factor.  For instance the Reb skill should be a skill related to a players positioning, box out ability, etc.  But if two guys with the same rebounding rating are paired up the taller guy should be able to pull more down.  Same with shot blocking.  The ratings should be more skill related (with the exception of the physical attributes - ath, spd, sta, dur).  It's a gripe I've had with the game since 2008

Posted by tcnelson1315 on 1/14/2016 11:10:00 PM (view original):
I'm not a fan of it not being a factor.  For instance the Reb skill should be a skill related to a players positioning, box out ability, etc.  But if two guys with the same rebounding rating are paired up the taller guy should be able to pull more down.  Same with shot blocking.  The ratings should be more skill related (with the exception of the physical attributes - ath, spd, sta, dur).  It's a gripe I've had with the game since 2008

Think of it this way though, if two players are different heights but have the same rebounding that means the smaller player is just more skilled than the taller guy. It makes perfect sense. Some smaller guys are just really good rebounders, have a nose for the ball, always good positional, physical, etc.

Posted by blackdog3377 on 1/15/2016 1:07:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tcnelson1315 on 1/14/2016 11:10:00 PM (view original):
I'm not a fan of it not being a factor.  For instance the Reb skill should be a skill related to a players positioning, box out ability, etc.  But if two guys with the same rebounding rating are paired up the taller guy should be able to pull more down.  Same with shot blocking.  The ratings should be more skill related (with the exception of the physical attributes - ath, spd, sta, dur).  It's a gripe I've had with the game since 2008

Think of it this way though, if two players are different heights but have the same rebounding that means the smaller player is just more skilled than the taller guy. It makes perfect sense. Some smaller guys are just really good rebounders, have a nose for the ball, always good positional, physical, etc.

But that's stupid.  If two guys have the same rebounding skill it should mean they're equally as skilled at getting rebounds.  At that point other factors, such as speed, athleticism and height should come into play to determine who get's the rebound more often.  

I agree, tcnelson, but I'm at least satisfied that it's somewhat incorporated instead of ignored completely. 

way more things to be worried about than having height be a direct factor into rebounding, blackdogg explained it best imo and it does make a lot of sense.  

Posted by tcnelson1315 on 1/15/2016 1:34:00 AM (view original):

Posted by blackdog3377 on 1/15/2016 1:07:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tcnelson1315 on 1/14/2016 11:10:00 PM (view original):
I'm not a fan of it not being a factor.  For instance the Reb skill should be a skill related to a players positioning, box out ability, etc.  But if two guys with the same rebounding rating are paired up the taller guy should be able to pull more down.  Same with shot blocking.  The ratings should be more skill related (with the exception of the physical attributes - ath, spd, sta, dur).  It's a gripe I've had with the game since 2008

Think of it this way though, if two players are different heights but have the same rebounding that means the smaller player is just more skilled than the taller guy. It makes perfect sense. Some smaller guys are just really good rebounders, have a nose for the ball, always good positional, physical, etc.

But that's stupid.  If two guys have the same rebounding skill it should mean they're equally as skilled at getting rebounds.  At that point other factors, such as speed, athleticism and height should come into play to determine who get's the rebound more often.  

If two guys are equally skilled at getting rebounds, then they ARE equally skilled - height, speed, athleticism, etc included.

That's precisely why height shouldn't be factored into things independent of the actual ratings, such as the rebounding rating - the rating takes all those things into account already. Doing it again would only increase the impact of that specific attribute (such as height) when it is already factored in once.

I'm more speakin in terms of like, your 5'7" guard is going to have a much harder time shooting against someone who is a 6'4" guard and wondered if that type of thing is factored in. Someone who is taller than you, but has similar ratings across the board, should have an advantage against you on the court. 

I couldn't care less about the height figuring into a players own ratings. I care about a 5'7" guard being played at SF, to gain an advantage against a poor defender, when my SF is nearly a foot taller. Not sure how it works, but if someone like Nate Robinson has JUST as easy of a time scoring against a Yao Ming as he does a Earl Boykins in this sim, I'm a little disappointed. 

It's great that height is incorporated into their own stats, but it takes away what height actually does on the court and the importance of it. I coach real life basketball, and can assure you that height is a HUGE factor in every asset of the game, in both a players own ability and the way he or she affects others on the court.

I don't think Nate Robinson would have just as easy of a time against Yao Ming as he does against Earl Boykins in this game, as the height is factored into the ratings.

So the Yao Ming player would probably have a much higher shot blocking rating, along with some others (rebounding, low post, etc.). The shot blocking would make it much harder for the Nate Robinson player to be successful if guarded by Yao Ming.

At the same time, since Robinson is no doubt faster than Ming, if it were a man defense, Ming's huge advantage in the post would disappear almost entirely on the perimeter, where Robinson can just blow by him.

As in real life, a man defense is subject to such possible matchup advantages and disadvantages. So as long as you play your Ming type player in the post where he belongs, someone else would have to play Robinson in the post to take advantage, but that's stupid since they'd be GIVING you that advantage in the post.

Similarly, you'd need to play Ming on the perimeter where he doesn't belong in order for someone's Robinson or other fast player to get the speed advantage to work.

So as long as you play your guys where they are at their strength, no one is really gaining an edge. After all, why would I play Robinson at C myself only to see your Ming crush every shot he puts up? That's not advantageous for me, but for you.

i dunno spike... i think nate COULD score on ming as easily as boykins.    i cant see how ming could gaurd him on the perimeter and off the dribble.


but,  imo, you do come close to the one real issue that HD misses by not incorporating height:

in HD, assuming he had good DE and ATH,  nate could do a great job gaurding Ming in the low post... and i agree that aint right.    

it has been suggested many times that DE should be split into two ratings  :  perimeter DE and interior DE.  and i think they were actually considering that at some point way back when,  but nowadays i dont see it happening.

and probably it doesnt affect things too much because most of the time we would be discouraged from playing nate on Ming because Nate's lack of RE would kill us at the 5.

most coaches have the same initial reaction as you.  but over time you get used to the way it is set up.  its not realistic to think a game like this could perfectly replicate real life hoops to everyones agreement.   so there are little things like this.  and you either get used to that or you dont.

someone once told me that HD is not really "a game about hoops" as much as it is "a game about math and stats and numbers".  and that is probably right.  

Posted by bistiza on 1/15/2016 1:30:00 PM (view original):
I don't think Nate Robinson would have just as easy of a time against Yao Ming as he does against Earl Boykins in this game, as the height is factored into the ratings.

So the Yao Ming player would probably have a much higher shot blocking rating, along with some others (rebounding, low post, etc.). The shot blocking would make it much harder for the Nate Robinson player to be successful if guarded by Yao Ming.

At the same time, since Robinson is no doubt faster than Ming, if it were a man defense, Ming's huge advantage in the post would disappear almost entirely on the perimeter, where Robinson can just blow by him.

As in real life, a man defense is subject to such possible matchup advantages and disadvantages. So as long as you play your Ming type player in the post where he belongs, someone else would have to play Robinson in the post to take advantage, but that's stupid since they'd be GIVING you that advantage in the post.

Similarly, you'd need to play Ming on the perimeter where he doesn't belong in order for someone's Robinson or other fast player to get the speed advantage to work.

So as long as you play your guys where they are at their strength, no one is really gaining an edge. After all, why would I play Robinson at C myself only to see your Ming crush every shot he puts up? That's not advantageous for me, but for you.

From my understanding, that's not how the engine works though... The engine doesn't recognize "xyz comes up to the post, and the player reacts to it and drives the lane."... It's percentages, so if you're at +2 with a guy on the PER and Ming comes up to defend it, the guard isn't changing his momentum and driving. He's probably just going to wing up the shot.  Having a 7 foot player in your face, while you're shooting that 3pt shot, is indeed going to be harder. Sure, IF a player of Nate Robinson's size drives the lane and scores, kudos to the sim. I don't feel it works that way, but I could be wrong. 

I think he hit the nail on the head, when he says that it's a numbers game and isn't necessarily trying to represent an actual basketball game. It's much easier to have the numbers game, than try to incorporate other things to try and justify assigning numbers to unmeasurable real life things luck, clutch...etc. 

Also, keep in mind, I'm more just curious as to how and why things are the way they are. Not saying they should be changed or that I hate this game cause it's not the way I see it should be. 

Just curious is all.