Maybe I am wrong but hasn't every new president in recent memory faced historic debt levels?

Did Clinton?

Posted by strikeout26 on 8/15/2018 3:02:00 PM (view original):
Did Clinton?

Yeah. The debt in 1993 was higher than ever before.

Posted by strikeout26 on 8/15/2018 3:59:00 PM (view original):
I could look this up, but I don't wanna. When did Clinton have his balanced budget?

What are you talking about?

Trump: If soldiers were ‘real patriots,’ they wouldn’t take a pay raise

The draft dodger in chief had the audacity to 'joke' about the patriotism of our military.

Posted by bad_luck on 8/15/2018 4:03:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 8/15/2018 3:59:00 PM (view original):
I could look this up, but I don't wanna. When did Clinton have his balanced budget?

What are you talking about?

Every incoming President has faced a historically high national debt for almost 100 years. Hoover was the last President to take office and face a debt smaller than it was the year before.

Thanks for hijaking the thread lol

I kid

Posted by cccp1014 on 8/15/2018 9:59:00 AM (view original):
Here is what the voters saw when they elected Trump. Let's debate.

#1) Historic debt levels
#2) Massive corporate inversions.
#3) Russia growing in strength (took Crimea without any resistance)
#4) US being friendlier to Iran than Israel
#5) Stagnant wages
#6) Iran mocking our military and us apologizing to them and then Benghazi.
#7) Massive rise in tuition costs
#8) Gov't telling people that they won't butt into gender identity or same sex marriage but will tell small business owners how much they have to pay their employees = critical supreme court nominations coming.
#9) ACA was more expensive than portrayed and people in states such as AZ were not happy.
#10) Rise of BLM, which is one example of a divide in race relations.

Result = Trump garners 306 Electoral Votes and wins. Obama endorses HRC and she still loses.

He was a C- president IMO.

Your turn. Which parts would you like to debate.

If you want someone to actually take this on, fine.

I feel like you just throw **** out there without context. It's the Sean Hannity style. Just scream bad sounding words, don't worry if your arguments actually make sense.

Most (all) of your points have little or nothing to do with Obama.

1) Ignoring for a moment that the debt has been huge forever and has never really gone down, Obama took office during a recession fueled by collapsing demand. That cratered tax revenue and increased the public's need for assistance. The only option was deficit spending. My only criticism of this is that we should have had a bigger stimulus and avoided the sequester.

2) Corporate inversions have been around since 1983. They haven't stopped under Trump. This has nothing to do with Obama other than the fact that he proposed closing the loopholes in budgets submitted to Congress in 2014, 2015, and 2016. Congress refused to act.

3) Not sure what you wanted Obama to do about Crimea.

4) That's just not true.

5) Wages have been stagnant since the 70's. In fact, wages have gone down under Trump.

6) What??? And then Benghazi??? You know that isn't in Iran, right?

7) Surprised you're an advocate for government price controls.

8) Again, what??? What does the minimum wage have to do with gender issues or Obama?

9) The ACA wasn't perfect but it was an improvement over the prior system.

10) Rise of BLM had nothing to do with Obama and everything to do with people being upset that police officers were killing black people and no one seemed to care. You, know, as if Black Lives Didn't Matter.

Posted by bad_luck on 8/15/2018 4:53:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 8/15/2018 9:59:00 AM (view original):
Here is what the voters saw when they elected Trump. Let's debate.

#1) Historic debt levels
#2) Massive corporate inversions.
#3) Russia growing in strength (took Crimea without any resistance)
#4) US being friendlier to Iran than Israel
#5) Stagnant wages
#6) Iran mocking our military and us apologizing to them and then Benghazi.
#7) Massive rise in tuition costs
#8) Gov't telling people that they won't butt into gender identity or same sex marriage but will tell small business owners how much they have to pay their employees = critical supreme court nominations coming.
#9) ACA was more expensive than portrayed and people in states such as AZ were not happy.
#10) Rise of BLM, which is one example of a divide in race relations.

Result = Trump garners 306 Electoral Votes and wins. Obama endorses HRC and she still loses.

He was a C- president IMO.

Your turn. Which parts would you like to debate.

If you want someone to actually take this on, fine.

I feel like you just throw **** out there without context. It's the Sean Hannity style. Just scream bad sounding words, don't worry if your arguments actually make sense.

Most (all) of your points have little or nothing to do with Obama.

1) Ignoring for a moment that the debt has been huge forever and has never really gone down, Obama took office during a recession fueled by collapsing demand. That cratered tax revenue and increased the public's need for assistance. The only option was deficit spending. My only criticism of this is that we should have had a bigger stimulus and avoided the sequester.

2) Corporate inversions have been around since 1983. They haven't stopped under Trump. This has nothing to do with Obama other than the fact that he proposed closing the loopholes in budgets submitted to Congress in 2014, 2015, and 2016. Congress refused to act.

3) Not sure what you wanted Obama to do about Crimea.

4) That's just not true.

5) Wages have been stagnant since the 70's. In fact, wages have gone down under Trump.

6) What??? And then Benghazi??? You know that isn't in Iran, right?

7) Surprised you're an advocate for government price controls.

8) Again, what??? What does the minimum wage have to do with gender issues or Obama?

9) The ACA wasn't perfect but it was an improvement over the prior system.

10) Rise of BLM had nothing to do with Obama and everything to do with people being upset that police officers were killing black people and no one seemed to care. You, know, as if Black Lives Didn't Matter.

#1) He increased it ridiculously without a plan to create a surplus and pay it down. I consider that a major faux pas. Sorry. He was there for 8 years and when he left the cost of funds remained at the very bottom and the stock market was propped up artificially high.

#2) Bull ****. Under Trump the number has gone down. Under Obama they were happening at a much higher pace than before.

#3) How about what Trump did. Sanctions, killed 200 mercs in Syria and armed the Ukranians. Novel concept.

#4) Bull ****. Now Iran is feeling the wrath of sanctions and about to implode. Under Obama we apologized to Iran for kidnapping our soldiers. We never had a worse relationship with Israel than we did under BHO and it culminated with the Palestinian flag flying at the DNC and the MS flag being banned. WTF was that? Nice leadership.

#5) Wages going up now. At least where I am in MA.

#6) Iran and Benghazi. I lumped them together. Both disasters.

#7) State schools should not be that expensive. They hide the tuition in the fees. Private institutions may charge how much they want.

#8) It means he butts in when he wants to but butts out when he doesn't. Inconsistent. Gov't shout butt out period. Don't tell me who I can or can't marry and don't tell me how much I have to pay my employees. Or butt in on both. Don't pick and choose. His fault.

#9) How was it an improvement? I disagree 100%. People in AZ do as well.

#10) Google the Cambridge MA case and how he responded. Police officers were doing their jobs. They were killing criminals. All lives matter. Not to you, captain leftist. You and I vehemently disagree here and Obama did nothing to even opine on this. So now the country is ridiculously divided. Why the F*CK did BLM loot Baltimore businesses? Black mayor, black Chief of Police, black POTUS, black AG, black city council, black business owners. Its because BLM is a terror group and Obama should have said that. In that case the cops were all found to have done their jobs correctly.

Your race baiting mantra is getting old. Then again you're a white guy so by your own verbiage you don't know sh*t about racism or bigotry since you personally never experienced it.

Posted by tangplay on 8/15/2018 1:29:00 PM (view original):
You changed your list. Anyway I am going to address this like miami addressed mine.

Things I agree with:
#1) Historic debt levels
#3) Russia growing in strength (took Crimea without any resistance)
#9) ACA was more expensive than portrayed and people in states such as AZ were not happy.

Question/This isn't his fault:
#7) Massive rise in tuition costs
Tuition costs have been rising even before Obama was in office. Under Obama the rise ticked up slightly. It's still rising. What did Obama do specifically to cause this?
#10) Rise of BLM, which is one example of a divide in race relations.
We have always had a divide in race relations. I don't see what Obama could have done to prevent this.

Totally disagree with:
#4) US being friendlier to Iran than Israel
This isn't true. Obama saw Israel as an ally and Iran as a threat.
#6) Iran mocking our military and us apologizing to them and then Benghazi.
Benghazi wasn't our fault and we spent 700 billion on it. Obama raised it significantly, which I did not like.
#8) Gov't telling people that they won't butt into gender identity or same sex marriage but will tell small business owners how much they have to pay their employees = critical supreme court nominations coming.
Are you complaining about minimum wage? Look I don't want to raise the minimum wage, but we need to have a minimum wage. And you are seriously saying this is on Obama? Did Obama create gay people? Did Obama create transgender people? Did Obama create the minimum wage? Trump ain't taking away the minimum wage and if he does, Republicans are going to take a huge hit.

I'm not going to touch the economic ones. Anyway IMO Obama wasn't perfect, but wasn't bad either. He would be a B/B- pres for me. Trump so far is in the D+/C- range. Maybe up to C+ if I cared about the economy more.

Things I liked:

1. Passed healthcare reform
2. Economy slowly recovered
3. Iran deal
4. At least did something about climate change
5. Organized the death of Osama bin Ladin
6. Helped us Auto, saved 2.5 million jobs
7. Banned policies allowing torture
8. Net Neutrality
9. Better global image
10. Decreased the prison population who were criminalized by drugs
11. Environmental protections
12. More efficient energy
13. Less veteran homelessness
14. Restricted government surveillance
15. Cracked down on For-Profit colleges
16. Cut the deficit
17. Better school nutrition (albeit that was his wife)
18. Reduced discrimination of former prisoners in hiring
19. Expanded internet coverage
20. Better food safety
21. No serious scandals
22. A decent all-around person, from what I have heard

1) ACA was not good. Sorry.
2) To point as he kept rates artificially high, worst GDP performance when compared to all other Presidents. He did inherit a **** storm from idiot Bush.
3) HATE IT. That evil regime just took that $$ to fund Hamas and Hezbollah.
4) I am neutral. What did he do?
5) Yes. Very good.
6) What?
7) Eh...I think that still happens.
8) I am always confused on this. Is net neutrality when I search for say "cats" Google directs me to where Google wants me to go or is it neutral? And was he for Google directing me or against?
9) I disagree 100%. Maybe weaker global image? See NK, Iran and Russia running wild. Rise of Isis.
10) Eh? That needs to be revamped. Not sure how I feel about this. I wish he did more to stop the drugs from coming in. He did try. I'll give you this one.
11) You already mentioned this? What do you mean?
12) Solyndra? FAIL. IDK.
13) Vets seemed to dislike him. I don't know enough. Some sources say yes he did, others say no. Which news is real?
14) Except for when it came to his adversaries? What do you mean?
15) He did? Tuition was never higher than under him.
16) He was not strong economically. Come on.
17) LOL - OK
18) Eh? IDK Not critical to me.
19) ???? OK
20) ???? OK
21) Benghazi? But OK
22) Agreed. I'd have a beer with him.

We just have different expectations of our leaders and thats fine. I actually have taken a step back. When I was 24 I was much more left than you were.

Posted by cccp1014 on 8/15/2018 5:54:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 8/15/2018 4:53:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 8/15/2018 9:59:00 AM (view original):
Here is what the voters saw when they elected Trump. Let's debate.

#1) Historic debt levels
#2) Massive corporate inversions.
#3) Russia growing in strength (took Crimea without any resistance)
#4) US being friendlier to Iran than Israel
#5) Stagnant wages
#6) Iran mocking our military and us apologizing to them and then Benghazi.
#7) Massive rise in tuition costs
#8) Gov't telling people that they won't butt into gender identity or same sex marriage but will tell small business owners how much they have to pay their employees = critical supreme court nominations coming.
#9) ACA was more expensive than portrayed and people in states such as AZ were not happy.
#10) Rise of BLM, which is one example of a divide in race relations.

Result = Trump garners 306 Electoral Votes and wins. Obama endorses HRC and she still loses.

He was a C- president IMO.

Your turn. Which parts would you like to debate.

If you want someone to actually take this on, fine.

I feel like you just throw **** out there without context. It's the Sean Hannity style. Just scream bad sounding words, don't worry if your arguments actually make sense.

Most (all) of your points have little or nothing to do with Obama.

1) Ignoring for a moment that the debt has been huge forever and has never really gone down, Obama took office during a recession fueled by collapsing demand. That cratered tax revenue and increased the public's need for assistance. The only option was deficit spending. My only criticism of this is that we should have had a bigger stimulus and avoided the sequester.

2) Corporate inversions have been around since 1983. They haven't stopped under Trump. This has nothing to do with Obama other than the fact that he proposed closing the loopholes in budgets submitted to Congress in 2014, 2015, and 2016. Congress refused to act.

3) Not sure what you wanted Obama to do about Crimea.

4) That's just not true.

5) Wages have been stagnant since the 70's. In fact, wages have gone down under Trump.

6) What??? And then Benghazi??? You know that isn't in Iran, right?

7) Surprised you're an advocate for government price controls.

8) Again, what??? What does the minimum wage have to do with gender issues or Obama?

9) The ACA wasn't perfect but it was an improvement over the prior system.

10) Rise of BLM had nothing to do with Obama and everything to do with people being upset that police officers were killing black people and no one seemed to care. You, know, as if Black Lives Didn't Matter.

#1) He increased it ridiculously without a plan to create a surplus and pay it down. I consider that a major faux pas. Sorry. He was there for 8 years and when he left the cost of funds remained at the very bottom and the stock market was propped up artificially high.

#2) Bull ****. Under Trump the number has gone down. Under Obama they were happening at a much higher pace than before.

#3) How about what Trump did. Sanctions, killed 200 mercs in Syria and armed the Ukranians. Novel concept.

#4) Bull ****. Now Iran is feeling the wrath of sanctions and about to implode. Under Obama we apologized to Iran for kidnapping our soldiers. We never had a worse relationship with Israel than we did under BHO and it culminated with the Palestinian flag flying at the DNC and the MS flag being banned. WTF was that? Nice leadership.

#5) Wages going up now. At least where I am in MA.

#6) Iran and Benghazi. I lumped them together. Both disasters.

#7) State schools should not be that expensive. They hide the tuition in the fees. Private institutions may charge how much they want.

#8) It means he butts in when he wants to but butts out when he doesn't. Inconsistent. Gov't shout butt out period. Don't tell me who I can or can't marry and don't tell me how much I have to pay my employees. Or butt in on both. Don't pick and choose. His fault.

#9) How was it an improvement? I disagree 100%. People in AZ do as well.

#10) Google the Cambridge MA case and how he responded. Police officers were doing their jobs. They were killing criminals. All lives matter. Not to you, captain leftist. You and I vehemently disagree here and Obama did nothing to even opine on this. So now the country is ridiculously divided. Why the F*CK did BLM loot Baltimore businesses? Black mayor, black Chief of Police, black POTUS, black AG, black city council, black business owners. Its because BLM is a terror group and Obama should have said that. In that case the cops were all found to have done their jobs correctly.

Your race baiting mantra is getting old. Then again you're a white guy so by your own verbiage you don't know sh*t about racism or bigotry since you personally never experienced it.

1) He didn't increase it ridiculously. And he shrunk the deficit significantly in 2012, 2013, 2014, and 2015.

2) And he did what he could to close the loopholes but the President doesn't control legislation.

3) You mean the sanctions Trump didn't want to put into effect?

4) Israel is an ally. Iran isn't. We never treated Iran better than Israel.

5) No, wages are not going up when scaled to inflation. They have gone done.

6) Ham sandwiches and lawnmowers. I lumped them together.

7) Cool. Last I checked the ******* President (the head of the FEDERAL government) doesn't set STATE school tuition. Jesus, read a civics book.

8) In this case, Obama didn't butt into anything. The Federal minimum wage has been around since 1938.

9) It was an improvement because it allowed people to get coverage when they weren't able to before.

10) All lives do matter but people have acted like "All Lives Matter except black lives." Yes, the country is JUST NOW divided. It's not like we've been divided for 200 years or anything. BLM is not a terror group. I'm surprised your brain has enough power to allow you to chew and swallow solid food without choking to death.

Posted by cccp1014 on 8/15/2018 6:02:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 8/15/2018 1:29:00 PM (view original):
You changed your list. Anyway I am going to address this like miami addressed mine.

Things I agree with:
#1) Historic debt levels
#3) Russia growing in strength (took Crimea without any resistance)
#9) ACA was more expensive than portrayed and people in states such as AZ were not happy.

Question/This isn't his fault:
#7) Massive rise in tuition costs
Tuition costs have been rising even before Obama was in office. Under Obama the rise ticked up slightly. It's still rising. What did Obama do specifically to cause this?
#10) Rise of BLM, which is one example of a divide in race relations.
We have always had a divide in race relations. I don't see what Obama could have done to prevent this.

Totally disagree with:
#4) US being friendlier to Iran than Israel
This isn't true. Obama saw Israel as an ally and Iran as a threat.
#6) Iran mocking our military and us apologizing to them and then Benghazi.
Benghazi wasn't our fault and we spent 700 billion on it. Obama raised it significantly, which I did not like.
#8) Gov't telling people that they won't butt into gender identity or same sex marriage but will tell small business owners how much they have to pay their employees = critical supreme court nominations coming.
Are you complaining about minimum wage? Look I don't want to raise the minimum wage, but we need to have a minimum wage. And you are seriously saying this is on Obama? Did Obama create gay people? Did Obama create transgender people? Did Obama create the minimum wage? Trump ain't taking away the minimum wage and if he does, Republicans are going to take a huge hit.

I'm not going to touch the economic ones. Anyway IMO Obama wasn't perfect, but wasn't bad either. He would be a B/B- pres for me. Trump so far is in the D+/C- range. Maybe up to C+ if I cared about the economy more.

Things I liked:

1. Passed healthcare reform
2. Economy slowly recovered
3. Iran deal
4. At least did something about climate change
5. Organized the death of Osama bin Ladin
6. Helped us Auto, saved 2.5 million jobs
7. Banned policies allowing torture
8. Net Neutrality
9. Better global image
10. Decreased the prison population who were criminalized by drugs
11. Environmental protections
12. More efficient energy
13. Less veteran homelessness
14. Restricted government surveillance
15. Cracked down on For-Profit colleges
16. Cut the deficit
17. Better school nutrition (albeit that was his wife)
18. Reduced discrimination of former prisoners in hiring
19. Expanded internet coverage
20. Better food safety
21. No serious scandals
22. A decent all-around person, from what I have heard

1) ACA was not good. Sorry.
2) To point as he kept rates artificially high, worst GDP performance when compared to all other Presidents. He did inherit a **** storm from idiot Bush.
3) HATE IT. That evil regime just took that $$ to fund Hamas and Hezbollah.
4) I am neutral. What did he do?
5) Yes. Very good.
6) What?
7) Eh...I think that still happens.
8) I am always confused on this. Is net neutrality when I search for say "cats" Google directs me to where Google wants me to go or is it neutral? And was he for Google directing me or against?
9) I disagree 100%. Maybe weaker global image? See NK, Iran and Russia running wild. Rise of Isis.
10) Eh? That needs to be revamped. Not sure how I feel about this. I wish he did more to stop the drugs from coming in. He did try. I'll give you this one.
11) You already mentioned this? What do you mean?
12) Solyndra? FAIL. IDK.
13) Vets seemed to dislike him. I don't know enough. Some sources say yes he did, others say no. Which news is real?
14) Except for when it came to his adversaries? What do you mean?
15) He did? Tuition was never higher than under him.
16) He was not strong economically. Come on.
17) LOL - OK
18) Eh? IDK Not critical to me.
19) ???? OK
20) ???? OK
21) Benghazi? But OK
22) Agreed. I'd have a beer with him.

We just have different expectations of our leaders and thats fine. I actually have taken a step back. When I was 24 I was much more left than you were.

1. Better than what we had before
2. He did. The economy was OK from what I can tell.
3. And they didn't have nukes. Remember you originally didn't have an opinion till Mr. Shapiro chimed in.
4. Paris climate accord, numerous regulations, and at least ADDRESSED it as an issue.
6. https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2012/sep/06/did-obama-save-us-automobile-industry/
7. Even if it does, it happens MUCH less than under Bush. Bush was terrible about that.
8. No, it's saying that companies like AT&T and Verizon can't restrict or slow down sites that they don't like and make us pay to just access sites like YouTube.
9. I mean among our ALLIES. Israel is one too but just in general. We have more allies than just Israel. Israel isn't even our #1 ally IMO.
10. I mean, you are the one saying to criminalize drugs less so you should love that he did this.
11. There's climate change and there's environmental protections. Obama addressed climate change (kinda) and also addressed the environment.
12. You don't think the Obama era took a step in the right direction?
13. They seemed to? IDK. Even if they didn't, less of them were homeless. That's a positive.
14. Uhh, what? Bush cracked up the surveillance and Obama reversed some of those policies. He didn't spy on Trump, are you ******* kidding me?
15. For-Profit colleges and tuition aren't the same thing. And yes, he did.
16. Was the deficit lower on Jan. 20, 2009 or on Jan 20. 2017?
17. I mean, it's true. As someone who was in school at the time of this happening and could actually observe the effects, it made a difference.
18. Civil rights is pretty high on my list.
19. More people had access to internet after Obama left than before, and Obama took steps to make sure this happened.
20. Obama established regulations to make sure that the food we consume is safe to eat.
21. Benghazi was as big a scandal to Obama as 9/11 was to Bush. At this point any 'scandal' about Benghazi is just a conspiracy theory. It's been examined to death. Let it go.