My teams usually aren't that great, and I'm forced to recruit lower end guys. This means that I can usually fill all of my scholarships since most of my recruits aren't highly sought after. But as my prestige improves, I want to start competing for some of the high end recruits, even though it will mean possibly having 1 or 2 (hopefully at worst) walk-ons each season.

Running the press defense with a deep bench was one of the strategies I used to compete against the big boys. It was one of the only advantages that I could generate without having a high prestige. But with open scholarships, this might not be as viable as it once was.

I think it's common knowledge on these forums that running 2 defenses (Press/Man or Press/Zone) generally isn't worth it, but it's something that I'm considering. Is there anyone with any experience that could give me some tips? For instance, what's the best combination of practice minutes to put in each set? If I'm planning on Press/Zone, would it be better to put more points into Press or Zone, or should they be equal?

If no one knows, I don't mind testing it out over the next few seasons and letting you guys know how it fares.

shoe runs the press/ zone quite well so he'd be a good one to talk with. I ran it for a bit with mixed results, but my practice minutes were 20 minutes zone and 10 minutes press. I figured they'd be in the zone more so than press once the opponent crosses half court so I would put more practice minutes into the zone.

Ultimately I gave up the combo defense because I felt I should focus on one defense and build for that...

I enjoy it, that’s the number one thing. You definitely don’t need to spend as many minutes on the press. Zone is your core, set defense, the press is just run to halfcourt. 20-20-10 is fine.

With teams that started in zone, I always got frustrated feeling I couldn’t generate enough turnovers, and ended up switching after a season or so. I’ve yet to switch back out of it. The HCP adds 2-3 turnovers per game, I would say, while maintaining the flexibility of a zone (to double, or move guys around for matchups). You don’t need 12 like a press, so you can take a walkon or two, or redshirt a guy; but if you have the depth, you can use it to your advantage, which can be a struggle with zone.

I suspect the biggest hangup folks have is feeling like they’re “wasting” minutes that could be better spent elsewhere. I don’t find this to be an important consideration for me. Unless a guy has really low work ethic, and I can’t start him much, I don’t have trouble getting core attributes and IQ where they need to be by the time I need to use them. 10 extra minutes may mean the difference of 4-5 points of growth on that 5th most important black attribute you’re working on. Those generally aren’t cores, and they often aren’t high potential, either. I was throwing a ton of minutes away based on diminishing returns, just trying to squeeze an extra red point or 2 out of juniors and seniors with those 10 points. I’ll take the extra turnovers.

Thanks for all the info shoe3. That's super helpful. I'll give it a go, and if I have any more in-depth questions, I'll hit you up with a sitemail.

Posted by cubcub113 on 11/16/2018 7:16:00 PM (view original):
dont run 2 defenses if you truly want to try as hard as you can to succeed, shoe would be so much more successful if he ran motion/man

Lol. Thanks for playing cubby.

Work Ethic becomes more important when running two sets. If possible try to get guys with like 50+.

Nice add on TJ. Very good point that could be overlooked in this situation. I've learned more from you in this game than anybody and i've never crossed paths with you in a conference or even being in the same division. Little tips like this can make a big difference.

The forums DO have useful information sometimes!

Thanks.

The forums have lots of info, it’s just covered in BS. You know like any other internet sounding board.

Personally, I would much rather talk about how the game plays than what’s wrong with it and try to contribute to the former type conversations when I can. I am not always right so take everything I say with a pound of salt.

Posted by shoe3 on 11/16/2018 7:41:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cubcub113 on 11/16/2018 7:16:00 PM (view original):
dont run 2 defenses if you truly want to try as hard as you can to succeed, shoe would be so much more successful if he ran motion/man

Lol. Thanks for playing cubby.

Insert Socratic/Frostian discourse illuminating true success here.

Posted by jaxorbetter on 11/17/2018 7:32:00 AM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 11/16/2018 7:41:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cubcub113 on 11/16/2018 7:16:00 PM (view original):
dont run 2 defenses if you truly want to try as hard as you can to succeed, shoe would be so much more successful if he ran motion/man

Lol. Thanks for playing cubby.

Insert Socratic/Frostian discourse illuminating true success here.

How about Foucault?

Conforming to societal standards, values, and processes in an ultimately meaningless and unproductive capitalist system of constant forced competition keeps one trapped in a perpetual cycle of aggression, missed expectations, and depression. Congratulations, you’ve built your own prison.

All right, let's further this conversation by considering the effects of colonialism and the "other", and how they relate to Foucault's prison. I want 10-page essays due tomorrow by 5pm.

And also, thanks for the tip about work ethic, trentonjoe. Regarding success, I'd rather have fun and do my own thing rather than having the same old boring ATH/DEF team competing for a championship. I'm trying to base my system on speed, passing, and perimeter, which works great for press but not so much for zone. We'll see how it goes.

Posted by mlitney on 11/17/2018 10:19:00 AM (view original):
And also, thanks for the tip about work ethic, trentonjoe. Regarding success, I'd rather have fun and do my own thing rather than having the same old boring ATH/DEF team competing for a championship. I'm trying to base my system on speed, passing, and perimeter, which works great for press but not so much for zone. We'll see how it goes.

I like this. I'm falling into the ATH/DEF game now. But I play all the sets and try to learn them all and be successful. I do disagree with one thing tho. Your SPD/PER/PAS goals, they can work with zone. Especially if you run 2-3. And pair it with triangle. That's a good system waiting to happen, in my opinion

Posted by Trentonjoe on 11/16/2018 7:50:00 PM (view original):
Work Ethic becomes more important when running two sets. If possible try to get guys with like 50+.

I think the importance of work ethic is constant between sets, regardless of whether you play a straight defense or a combo. Work ethic is always more important for individual players who need more development to become useful at your level, so if you’re taking on more project type players and trying to hide them for a while in your combo rotation, of course that’s a consideration. But that’s true if you’re playing man or press or straight zone as well.

I think what you’re probably getting at is that if you’re devoting minutes to a second set, you’re giving up that amount of minutes in attribute development. Or giving up minutes you could be using in the primary sets. Sure. But we run up against diminishing returns on those minutes a lot sooner than some folks realize, I think. The question is always where you find utility in those extra minutes, and that’s up to the user, I think there are lots of good ways (and lots of dumb ways) to do it. As long as it’s done with purpose as part of the overall strategy you’re using, it’s valid. The dumb ways would be ways that waste those minutes, so they don’t get utilized.