When battling a division I school, if the recruit is at Moderate or higher WITH a scholarship offer from that D1 school, is it pretty much a loss cause to stop recruiting him and go after another player?

Depends if it's a human or SIM?

If it's a human, it depends on the situation? How many open scholarships does he have? Is this player someone that might be a priority for him? Has he been in other recruiting battles? Prestige? Preferences? I would say about 95% of the time, you want to back off him, but it may be worth it, if it's a good player.

What about a sim coached div I team?

You can easily knock them down. Make sure you get the SIM go very low. It will keep putting effort in if you only get it to low. They give up once at VL

What Wales said. Also, important to knock them down to very low as early as you can during recruiting, otherwise it becomes much harder to win a battle.

Before you waste effort trying to knock them down, take a look at the preferences and try to guess how they match up to your battle opponent. No point in wasting resources if you are at a pref disadvantage and their attention points are worth more than yours.

It's definitely NOT time to give up if the D1 sim is at moderate. Blazer fan is right, as far as check the preferences. But in my opinion, if the sim is only at moderate, you're in the driver seat at the moment. You don't have far to go, to knock them down. It's when they get to high or very high where it becomes decision time for you.

I make a living off knocking D1 sims down. There are times where it's easy, there are times where it's more difficult and takes lots of effort.

My questions blazer fan..... question one... is the preferences the biggest factor in the amount of effort it takes to knock them down? Is it prestige differential? Is it something else? Is it all of the above? I really don't know the answer to that. But I'd like to know the consensus answer (from multiple coaches, to confirm)

I'd say close to 80% of the players I sign are from knocking down D1 sims. Now that i'm A+ prestige with most of my teams, it seems much easier than before when I was in the B range. So i've always felt that was my biggest benefit. Is it a percentage maybe.... 33% prestige, 33% preference situation, 34% other crap?

Question two.... when we discuss AP being worth more due to preferences, what are we talking about? A 2 to 1 ratio is not feasible. So is it 1.1 to 1? 1.3 to 1? What is a reasonable estimate?

The other thing to think about is signing preference because that can make a big difference. If the player has an early or by end of period one signing it's much harder to win over the D1 school. Even if you have a lead as long as the D1 school has enough effort for the player to sign they will. Different story with the late signing period .

I'm not sure what the multipliers are, I just usually go for recruits with multiple VH prefs. Also, promising only 15 mins gets the playing time pref to VH. I've had great success winning battles without promising a start and 25 mins that would screw me later.

Prestige also plays a factor for sure. Also found it's much easier to knock off D1s with A- or higher.

I kinda disagree with the timing though. If you can pump a lot of early attn points into a guy who is clearly a d1's backup option, having an early signing pref and landing him early in session 2 is the way to go.

Posted by blackdog3377 on 12/22/2018 12:05:00 AM (view original):
The other thing to think about is signing preference because that can make a big difference. If the player has an early or by end of period one signing it's much harder to win over the D1 school. Even if you have a lead as long as the D1 school has enough effort for the player to sign they will. Different story with the late signing period .

I disagree with this personally. See the thread that is currently on page 2, titled "how much does signing preference matter"

I feel the exact opposite of this. As late signers only allow MORE time for D1s to swoop in and take your players. Whether a D2 coach is in signing range (high or very high) or not, a D1 can take your player at any time. It's actually NOT a different story with the late signing period. It doesn't change anything.

if I'm in RS1 and my screen says "moderate" on an Early/EoP1 signer, and a D1 puts 10 visits on my player. He takes him..... If i'm in RS2 and my screen says "very high" on a late signer, and a D1 puts 10 visits on my player. He takes him..... I think people feel that just because you're in signing range officially, that your effort means more in a battle with a D1. When it doesn't at all. You can't fight back stronger in RS2 just because you're in signing range. Your effort meant the same in RS1 as it does in RS2. The only difference is with the late signer, is that you gave other schools two extra days to jump in the mix.

The reason I say its easier to sign Early/EoP1 guys, is strictly because you can sign them sooner. Allowing less time for opposing coaches to lose other battles, look for backup options, and see your target sitting there.

Posted by pdxblazerfan on 12/22/2018 7:24:00 AM (view original):
I'm not sure what the multipliers are, I just usually go for recruits with multiple VH prefs. Also, promising only 15 mins gets the playing time pref to VH. I've had great success winning battles without promising a start and 25 mins that would screw me later.

Prestige also plays a factor for sure. Also found it's much easier to knock off D1s with A- or higher.

I kinda disagree with the timing though. If you can pump a lot of early attn points into a guy who is clearly a d1's backup option, having an early signing pref and landing him early in session 2 is the way to go.

This is spot on.

If you’re in an *active* battle with a D1, an early signing preference is likely to hurt you, because as blackdog says, you have to not only beat the D1, you have to blow it out to hold it to moderate. Unless you have preference advantages to mitigate the division difference, that requires a huge investment, which you can still lose entirely, if the recruit is a priority for the D1.

If the D1 does not prioritize the recruit, and you can correctly determine it is a backup, an early session signing preference can help, for the reasons TDGG mentions. Understanding the nuances of prioritization is huge.

“...promising only 15 mins gets the playing time pref to VH. I've had great success winning battles without promising a start and 25 mins that would screw me later.”

Not to belabor the point, but prioritization is big here, too. A 15 minutes promise does not get you the same modifying value as a 25 minutes promise. It can work out fine if the guy is not a priority for the other team, but obviously that 15 minutes promise is just as easy to keep for everyone else.

I just don't really look at "D2 vs D1" as a battle really.

A D2 coach stands no chance if the recruiting process starts off in a battle. More often than not, when D2 and D1 coaches are pushing for the same player, the timing of it is either A) as the recruits signing period is approaching. Or B) whenever the D1 pleases. The only time a real battle happens is if the D1 coach is "allowing" it to happen. Which again, to me is not an active battle. It's not a situation where the D2 coach is pushing hard to create a battle between the two.

as Zags mentioned in another thread, it takes very little for a D1 to take a recruit from a D2. So if a D2 is in a real battle early, a battle that the D1 is actually pushing for, you're throwing your money away. It's not a battle. It's a hostile takeover.

I guess i'm trying to say... why WOULD a D2 be in an active battle early with a D1? Unless it's the last day of RS1 (which I don't consider to be early in recruiting), you cut your losses and move on.

We’re basically saying the same thing. You don’t want to engage battle (ie, use $ resources) with a D1 team for an early session recruit, unless you are pretty sure that D1 is not going to prioritize the guy. Taking some calculated risks is fine, but you need to know what you’re doing, and be prepared to deal with spending a lot for a guy you don’t get.

That said, lots of championship caliber D2 coaches routinely battle low and even mid major D1 human controlled teams for their top targets. It isn’t necessarily a lost cause, and gambling for the right guys can be huge.