Meet William Kent:

https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerProfile/RatingsHistory.aspx?tid=12001&pid=4142815

Started off a green 10 in LP, ended up at 92.

I'm sure other players have gathered larger one-category increases. I haven't seen them, but I think it'd be fun to. Anyone care to share their success stories?

Is that Dan Dickau former Gonzaga player?

14 to 100 in PER. His Junior and Senior numbers are legendary from the 3.

And he didn't even have a redshirt season! Very impressive.

Leonard Stone, redshirting this guy led to a D2 title. PER of 11 to 100.

https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/RatingsHistory.aspx?pid=4116449

This guy went from 19 to 100 in PER. Helped lead me to my first ever championship.

https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/RatingsHistory.aspx?pid=3602212

David Ellis was lots of fun. He’s the type of player I sign sometimes as an afterthought, who will redshirt, be better than a walkon for a couple years, and then give me a couple high IQ seasons of flexibility off the bench as an upperclassman. But he turned into a PAC-10 all-conference guy.

He improved from 19 to 97 in perimeter, and would have gotten to 99-100, except he never got a substantial between-season boost, and even went down before his final season. Additionally, he went from 24 to 81 in LP (could have gotten to 85, but I didn’t make this a priority until his last few seasons). Up a total of 135 scoring points.

Jim Simpson. Went from 14 to 86 in LP and 19 to 94 in PER. Total of 147 for the two. He still had room to grow in both, just wish I had the foresight to redshirt him.

Posted by shoe3 on 6/4/2019 11:51:00 AM (view original):
David Ellis was lots of fun. He’s the type of player I sign sometimes as an afterthought, who will redshirt, be better than a walkon for a couple years, and then give me a couple high IQ seasons of flexibility off the bench as an upperclassman. But he turned into a PAC-10 all-conference guy.

He improved from 19 to 97 in perimeter, and would have gotten to 99-100, except he never got a substantial between-season boost, and even went down before his final season. Additionally, he went from 24 to 81 in LP (could have gotten to 85, but I didn’t make this a priority until his last few seasons). Up a total of 135 scoring points.

The real story with this guy, for me, is the 43 growth in defense. I've only had a handful of guys with that kind of number in ATH or DEF and it makes a huge difference. Not saying the LP wasn't nice. But the defense probably made a bigger difference in turning the guy into a starter.

Posted by dahsdebater on 6/4/2019 1:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 6/4/2019 11:51:00 AM (view original):
David Ellis was lots of fun. He’s the type of player I sign sometimes as an afterthought, who will redshirt, be better than a walkon for a couple years, and then give me a couple high IQ seasons of flexibility off the bench as an upperclassman. But he turned into a PAC-10 all-conference guy.

He improved from 19 to 97 in perimeter, and would have gotten to 99-100, except he never got a substantial between-season boost, and even went down before his final season. Additionally, he went from 24 to 81 in LP (could have gotten to 85, but I didn’t make this a priority until his last few seasons). Up a total of 135 scoring points.

The real story with this guy, for me, is the 43 growth in defense. I've only had a handful of guys with that kind of number in ATH or DEF and it makes a huge difference. Not saying the LP wasn't nice. But the defense probably made a bigger difference in turning the guy into a starter.

Oh absolutely. If it topped out at 78, he would have been what I originally intended, a high IQ bench contributor as an upperclassman (albeit a surprisingly effective scoring option).

Posted by dahsdebater on 6/4/2019 1:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 6/4/2019 11:51:00 AM (view original):
David Ellis was lots of fun. He’s the type of player I sign sometimes as an afterthought, who will redshirt, be better than a walkon for a couple years, and then give me a couple high IQ seasons of flexibility off the bench as an upperclassman. But he turned into a PAC-10 all-conference guy.

He improved from 19 to 97 in perimeter, and would have gotten to 99-100, except he never got a substantial between-season boost, and even went down before his final season. Additionally, he went from 24 to 81 in LP (could have gotten to 85, but I didn’t make this a priority until his last few seasons). Up a total of 135 scoring points.

The real story with this guy, for me, is the 43 growth in defense. I've only had a handful of guys with that kind of number in ATH or DEF and it makes a huge difference. Not saying the LP wasn't nice. But the defense probably made a bigger difference in turning the guy into a starter.

This will likely lead to a different discussion. But some of my HD friends and i discuss growth by category very often. Excluding LP and PER, i feel like DEF is easily the next highest growth category in HD and it's not even close. I've always mentally grouped things like.... 1. LP/PER. 2 DEF. 3. All the rest of the categories in random order based off cores for the player. Some of my friends agree. Some don't.

Thoughts on this?

it's not uncommon for me to have a class of 5, sign all green defenders (also very common. I like the 40s and 50s green defenders as recruits) and by the end of freshan season, 1 or 2 are still green and the ones that aren't are still blue. Have i been lucky? Or do others see this? And i'm talking 2 years of real life time, with 4 teams minimum.

https://imgur.com/a/bjAyj0v

here's a few guys i thought of, that would fit the situation

You'll find this thread interesting if you haven't seen it before. Specifically, scroll down to possum's post on the first page and see what he did with macros and pulling player increases over a season. DEF had the highest average, specifically aided by the numbers in the 28-40 increase range, but capped out around 40-50. LP and PER were the only ones in the 60-90 increase ranges. PASS/BH had more than DEF in the 50-60 range.

Posted by Basketts on 6/6/2019 1:56:00 PM (view original):
You'll find this thread interesting if you haven't seen it before. Specifically, scroll down to possum's post on the first page and see what he did with macros and pulling player increases over a season. DEF had the highest average, specifically aided by the numbers in the 28-40 increase range, but capped out around 40-50. LP and PER were the only ones in the 60-90 increase ranges. PASS/BH had more than DEF in the 50-60 range.

Thanks for finding that chart, Basketts, that was the first thing I thought about regarding the response above you.

The thing to keep in mind about the averages in that data is that basically every human who knows what they’re doing tries to get max or close to max growth in defense, *for every player*. For categories like rebounding, ball-handling, and passing, this isn’t true. Many coaches don’t bother with BH or passing for bigs until all the important core big attributes are max or close; likewise for guards and rebounding. This skews their *average* down below defense.

Simply put, human coaches are much more likely to leave growth on the table in ball-handling and passing, than they are for defense. This probably explains why the average for defense gains is higher, but the actual capacity for growth tends to be a bit smaller.

Posted by Basketts on 6/6/2019 1:56:00 PM (view original):
You'll find this thread interesting if you haven't seen it before. Specifically, scroll down to possum's post on the first page and see what he did with macros and pulling player increases over a season. DEF had the highest average, specifically aided by the numbers in the 28-40 increase range, but capped out around 40-50. LP and PER were the only ones in the 60-90 increase ranges. PASS/BH had more than DEF in the 50-60 range.

Nice. So everyone doesn't have throw poo at me this time for my opinions! Thank you for sharing that.