For all of you that have used the fullcourt press defense, at what point IQ wise does the press become effective. It seems that all my teams do below a B level when playing press is foul with MAYBE one of two more turnovers.

I see that you play low D1. So I can't speak for that specifically, I only play D2.

But it takes more than just IQ to keep your team from fouling like crazy. ATH is a key factor as well. If you see that your teams are up against opponents that are far superior to yours athletically, you will have a lot of players foul out. Also stamina is a big factor as well. If you don't have 12 players, some of your players may be fatigued during games. Fatigue creates fouls.

Last part, at D2/D3 press can be super powerful when you have a big talent advantage over opposing teams. From what I have heard "THEY" say, press is a lot tougher to run effectively at D1 compared to lower levels.

D1 coaches, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here

thanks for the response....I wish some of the D1 coaches would take some time to help.

Not sure on the IQ but I do put 25 points to it. Biggest thing for me is having enough players. I need 11 minimum. 10 is really pushing it and 12 would be fantastic. You don’t need the top top talent as the press is an equalizer as long as you have a team with high ATH and STAM. I love running it but it definitely takes practice knowing what roster you need.

Posted by smackawits on 1/3/2020 8:28:00 AM (view original):
thanks for the response....I wish some of the D1 coaches would take some time to help.

I know you didn't mean this disrespectfully. So maybe I should clarify something.

Everything I stated above is accurate and can translate to D1 and you can use that info to help make your team improve. The part I said about press supposedly being more difficult to run at D1, is because I assume it's more difficult to sign 12 great players on a consistent basis, while trying to fend off Big 6 schools and other great programs in that world.

probably an a- or so. press is the most iq-valuing set for sure. the reason IQ is so important is two fold. first, in and of itself, press has the highest ceiling in this game in terms of how dominant a set it can be, and so that iq just goes further by default. but second, press also has the greatest weakness. its way more tiring and you foul a lot more.

its the last bit that makes IQ so important. fouls increase in negative value the more you get, because guys start fouling out or being in too much trouble to play. sure, this happens everywhere, but press has the most fouls so the marginal foul is the biggest (negative) value there. so just on this basis, fouls are worse there.

it gets worse when you compound with fatigue. foul trouble also hurts press worse just like it hurts teams without depth worse than teams with depth, because with press you'll end up playing at deeper fatigue levels than you will in lower fatigue sets. this means your guys are defensively weaker and unable to generate the TOs, so it really bites into press's native advantage.

in short, foul/fatigue trouble spirals and compounds each other, and with low IQ, you just aren't going to be able to cut it. its hard to say what is 'required' because there is no context, required to be a title favorite? to make the NT? in general, i find press defenders start getting good in that b+/a- range but really benefit all the way up. i have had a number of really jr/soph heavy title press teams (especially in d1), and with 25m that is basically right where your sophs land.

usually on an O/D switch, i play the old set for a season before switching, but i've considered waiting 2 on press bc its so important.

thanks folks...I appreciate it!

B+ on up. Always put in 25 minutes of practice if you run the press because everyone needs to know the defense for it to work.. 80+ stamina and 11-12 players. High Ath and speed. Any player that can't reach a speed of 40+, Def 75+, or an Ath 75+ is out. Those are the minimum requirements to be in a D1 Press. Higher level of competition you go the higher those numbers need to be on your team.

Much more difficult to run at D1 because EEs can kill you easier. Starting freshmen because of promises will hurt your press effectiveness early. I often lighten the load with Sims early in nonconference so that freshmen can get PT and avoid fouling out while they learn the press defense. This hurts your SOS but decreases the chance of bad losses and unhappy freshmen.

Posted by ftbeaglesfan on 1/10/2020 2:18:00 PM (view original):
B+ on up. Always put in 25 minutes of practice if you run the press because everyone needs to know the defense for it to work.. 80+ stamina and 11-12 players. High Ath and speed. Any player that can't reach a speed of 40+, Def 75+, or an Ath 75+ is out. Those are the minimum requirements to be in a D1 Press. Higher level of competition you go the higher those numbers need to be on your team.

Much more difficult to run at D1 because EEs can kill you easier. Starting freshmen because of promises will hurt your press effectiveness early. I often lighten the load with Sims early in nonconference so that freshmen can get PT and avoid fouling out while they learn the press defense. This hurts your SOS but decreases the chance of bad losses and unhappy freshmen.

this is generally good advice but i'm going to tweak a couple things.

speed is really important in the press, but in today's game, press is vastly more ath/def heavy than it used to be - you almost used to be able to ignore those, in the back court, for really fast guys. and even in those days, speed at the 4-5 just didn't matter much. i was a huge fan of the press, and of speed - i remember one incredibly dominant d2 team i had featured 6 guys with 90 speed at the 1-3. they were unstoppable.

however, i tried and tried to push this speed out further, to the 4 and 5, to get gains - it just didn't work. i tried again after the shift from speed to ath/def, and it still didn't work. i think basically folks see how crazy valuable speedy guards are for generating TOs, and for per defense (fg%/3pt%) too, and extrapolate to the whole team - but i really do not think it works that way. i will happily take 1 speed bigs with sufficient ath/reb/def, all the way up the very highest levels of d1.

also defense and speed are significantly more valuable than ath for pressing guards, in terms of defense. if you have to sacrifice something, that's the place to go. now that ath/def are so tightly coupled, its not always easy to do, but i've had 70 ath 90 def type guys and they aren't that rare. i generally consider a 90 in everything guy to be the standard, the standard title caliber guy i guess. so 90 ath/def/spd. you can definitely win titles with the 95 ath/def 75 speed types, but you do give up a bit on turnovers. on the other hand, the 95 def/spd guys with 70s ath give up almost nothing.

good point on the stamina. stamina is widely under appreciated in this game as a whole, but especially with respect to higher tempo schemes.

Posted by ftbeaglesfan on 1/10/2020 2:18:00 PM (view original):
B+ on up. Always put in 25 minutes of practice if you run the press because everyone needs to know the defense for it to work.. 80+ stamina and 11-12 players. High Ath and speed. Any player that can't reach a speed of 40+, Def 75+, or an Ath 75+ is out. Those are the minimum requirements to be in a D1 Press. Higher level of competition you go the higher those numbers need to be on your team.

Much more difficult to run at D1 because EEs can kill you easier. Starting freshmen because of promises will hurt your press effectiveness early. I often lighten the load with Sims early in nonconference so that freshmen can get PT and avoid fouling out while they learn the press defense. This hurts your SOS but decreases the chance of bad losses and unhappy freshmen.

I do 23 minutes. Why 23? Michael Jordan obviously.

You wanna be like Mike you gotta practice like Mike.

Posted by gillispie1 on 1/10/2020 3:13:00 PM (view original):

Posted by ftbeaglesfan on 1/10/2020 2:18:00 PM (view original):
B+ on up. Always put in 25 minutes of practice if you run the press because everyone needs to know the defense for it to work.. 80+ stamina and 11-12 players. High Ath and speed. Any player that can't reach a speed of 40+, Def 75+, or an Ath 75+ is out. Those are the minimum requirements to be in a D1 Press. Higher level of competition you go the higher those numbers need to be on your team.

Much more difficult to run at D1 because EEs can kill you easier. Starting freshmen because of promises will hurt your press effectiveness early. I often lighten the load with Sims early in nonconference so that freshmen can get PT and avoid fouling out while they learn the press defense. This hurts your SOS but decreases the chance of bad losses and unhappy freshmen.

this is generally good advice but i'm going to tweak a couple things.

speed is really important in the press, but in today's game, press is vastly more ath/def heavy than it used to be - you almost used to be able to ignore those, in the back court, for really fast guys. and even in those days, speed at the 4-5 just didn't matter much. i was a huge fan of the press, and of speed - i remember one incredibly dominant d2 team i had featured 6 guys with 90 speed at the 1-3. they were unstoppable.

however, i tried and tried to push this speed out further, to the 4 and 5, to get gains - it just didn't work. i tried again after the shift from speed to ath/def, and it still didn't work. i think basically folks see how crazy valuable speedy guards are for generating TOs, and for per defense (fg%/3pt%) too, and extrapolate to the whole team - but i really do not think it works that way. i will happily take 1 speed bigs with sufficient ath/reb/def, all the way up the very highest levels of d1.

also defense and speed are significantly more valuable than ath for pressing guards, in terms of defense. if you have to sacrifice something, that's the place to go. now that ath/def are so tightly coupled, its not always easy to do, but i've had 70 ath 90 def type guys and they aren't that rare. i generally consider a 90 in everything guy to be the standard, the standard title caliber guy i guess. so 90 ath/def/spd. you can definitely win titles with the 95 ath/def 75 speed types, but you do give up a bit on turnovers. on the other hand, the 95 def/spd guys with 70s ath give up almost nothing.

good point on the stamina. stamina is widely under appreciated in this game as a whole, but especially with respect to higher tempo schemes.

I agree that in the past you could have super fast low ath guards that could dominate. But now that teams are supercharged and everyone has a high ath team themselves, you cant skimp on ath for guards anymore, they just foul WAY too much.

Fouling in press for guard is driven primarily by Ath. Defense plays some factor but in my experience it's nothing compared to ath.

As for the school of thought that low IQ leads to crazy fouling, I'm not buying it. I show this guy all the time to prove my point about ath and also IQ. He started all 4 seasons for my press team, avg ~20 mpg each season and avg ~3 fouls per game each season. If IQ has a major impact on fouling then they would be lower as a senior than freshman right?

well, i would start by saying foul rate in press is a product consisting primarily of 6 factors, in no particular order: defense, athleticism, iq, offensive possessions (scoring is a decent proxy), fatigue level, and strength of schedule (real, but again listed SOS is a decent proxy, especially if you factor in both SOS and home/away ratio). in a word, its complicated.

your guy is so consistently bad across his whole career, so it could be a situation where hes just that bad (roughly, guys 'max out' and 'min out' against the competition - your guy has such bad defense and ath that he could have 'min'd out' even with crap IQ, although i don't exactly buy that as a full explanation, hes awful but not awful enough for low d1 for that to totally cover it). it could also be the case where whatever your fatigue and SOS situation was worked against him as he got older. my best guess is a little of both?

its relatively hard for me to go investigate all that given that team is long gone, but i may look a little more on your past roster and try to half-*** piece an argument together. all i'm saying right now is, its complicated, and theres numerous scenarios which could explain your guy's drop, without IQ not mattering much for fouls.

also, any idea what you play on the distro page for the foul subbing setting? guys who get up in the high fouls, the 3+ range which is your guy always, they generally end up just playing less with foul trouble which sometimes limits total foul count, at the expense at reducing their minutes from what they would/should be playing. not exactly sure how that all ties up in there.

i am supposed to be doing something but i'll likely circle back later tonight to see if i can make sense of any of that dude - i admit he is strange at a glance, i just have too much experience with low IQ ******* me over to believe its your explanation at play at the moment. i'm hoping you might be able to provide a little context to make that job easier!

I'm glad you're intrigued by this guy because I remember how ****** off I was when I had him on my team always fouling out constantly.

I dont think he's THAT bad as you make it seen tho. its d2 not d1. I thought with his offense skills and speed he would be useful even with low ath/def but I learned to steer clear of those guys after him.

The good news is that I'm really lazy with changing settings so I know that my team was set up the same every season. Almost always playing slowdown. Sub at fairly fresh. Normal foul trouble settings.

My SOS was also pretty strong all 4 seasons. 12, 23, 7 and 2.

Aalso of note, his def did increase by 12 points from FR fo SR season.

If you have enough speed, athleticism and stamina, really any IQ is good for running press. It won't be as impactful as a team with A's, but you can still run an effective press.

Posted by ftbeaglesfan on 1/10/2020 2:18:00 PM (view original):
B+ on up. Always put in 25 minutes of practice if you run the press because everyone needs to know the defense for it to work.. 80+ stamina and 11-12 players. High Ath and speed. Any player that can't reach a speed of 40+, Def 75+, or an Ath 75+ is out. Those are the minimum requirements to be in a D1 Press. Higher level of competition you go the higher those numbers need to be on your team.

Much more difficult to run at D1 because EEs can kill you easier. Starting freshmen because of promises will hurt your press effectiveness early. I often lighten the load with Sims early in nonconference so that freshmen can get PT and avoid fouling out while they learn the press defense. This hurts your SOS but decreases the chance of bad losses and unhappy freshmen.

I'm going to chime in again, with my D2 mindset, so I apologize if my statement is incorrect for D1......

But i LOVE starting freshmen while running press! I don't want more that 2 starting. But I almost intentionally start 1 or 2 every season. (By intentionally, I mean I will recruit great players and offer the start, rather than recruiting a player that's less talented and a start is not needed because I'm not battling for him).

But with press, you're gonna be running fatigue down quickly. So everyone on the roster gets playing time. So by starting a freshman or two, you're likely forcing a good upperclassmen to the bench, which strengthens that bench! I run my press teams that way. I feel like in HD a strong bench is much more important than in real life.