What’s the trick to moving a recruit from Moderate to Very High to actually signing? I’ve sent out all the HVs and CVs my tiny budget will allow, have promised minutes and starts, etc. I’ve sent 20-30 attention points every round yet those I have targeted remain stuck on Moderate.

What am I missing?

I am still fairly new at this but if you are a D3 school, and recruiting D2 or D1 guys, you can only get them to moderate in the first recruiting session.

JerryRay is correct. A D3 school can only sign D1 level players in the last 24 hours of the 2nd recruiting period. If you are pursuing D2 recruits then you won't be able to sign them until the beginning of the 2nd period. Also, take a look at the recruits signing preference. If they are a late signer then they won't sign until the 2nd period as well.

Posted by Qhadow123 on 6/8/2020 7:01:00 AM (view original):
What’s the trick to moving a recruit from Moderate to Very High to actually signing? I’ve sent out all the HVs and CVs my tiny budget will allow, have promised minutes and starts, etc. I’ve sent 20-30 attention points every round yet those I have targeted remain stuck on Moderate.

What am I missing?

The first year of this recruiting system I had the same exact problem. It's not that you can't sign the player until the next recruiting window -- the problem is that it SAYS moderate but you are actually High or Very High. So you didn't need to apply nearly that much effort in all likelihood -- once you can sign the player Moderate will be updated to its true value (High or Very High) and you might even sign the player instantly depending on preferences.

At first I thought those players were completely inaccessible to me since my entire budget couldn't get a single one past Moderate lol

PS while you technically don't know what your true rating is I (almost) never have it end up being "True Moderate". It is (almost) always High or Very High.

thanks, guys. this is very helpful, and encouraging. so if i’m pursuing a D1 prospect and have thrown a bunch of points his way, what are the odds that a D1 or D2 school can swoop in and take him from me? if they’re rated ‘Low’ by the kid? Moderate? Very High even though i’ve promised more?

Posted by Qhadow123 on 6/8/2020 9:21:00 AM (view original):
thanks, guys. this is very helpful, and encouraging. so if i’m pursuing a D1 prospect and have thrown a bunch of points his way, what are the odds that a D1 or D2 school can swoop in and take him from me? if they’re rated ‘Low’ by the kid? Moderate? Very High even though i’ve promised more?

Depends whether it's a human or sim-coached D1 school. Also depends on a variety of factors

Things to look for:
How many openings do they have?
What prestige are they?
How do you match up preference-wise?
What's their conference prestige?
What distance are they from the recruit?
Of the recruits on your board, do you see them on the considering list for any other recruits? This can give you some idea of where their resources are spread (although it's much harder now than it was in 1.0 and 2.0 to see how coaches recruiting resources are being used)

For example, I started off moderate on an elite D2 prospect in Knight and held that for two cycles in RS1 against a B- prestige D2 school. However, this D2 school had more openings than I do (I only had 1, which really means limited cash at D3 no matter how successful your team/conference) and was literally only 72 miles from a prospect with a "close to home" preference who was 500+ miles away from me. With that in mind, I wasn't looking for a heavy battle, so I kept a decent amount of AP on the kid and dropped a home visit, but as soon as that D2 school matched me as moderate, I dropped and shifted my AP elsewhere because it just wasn't a battle worth fighting. A B- prestige D2 school with 3 openings vs a C+ prestige D3 school with 1 opening and a massive distance advantage for a player looking to stay close to home? I had no chance.

Posted by Qhadow123 on 6/8/2020 9:21:00 AM (view original):
thanks, guys. this is very helpful, and encouraging. so if i’m pursuing a D1 prospect and have thrown a bunch of points his way, what are the odds that a D1 or D2 school can swoop in and take him from me? if they’re rated ‘Low’ by the kid? Moderate? Very High even though i’ve promised more?

The odds that a D1 or D2 school CAN swoop in is probably close to 100% if they really want the recruit. They can go from Low to Signed in a single cycle if they have all of the recruiting actions unlocked. Its mainly a matter of how good the recruit is and what his signing preference is.

Posted by marl_karx on 6/8/2020 11:06:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Qhadow123 on 6/8/2020 9:21:00 AM (view original):
thanks, guys. this is very helpful, and encouraging. so if i’m pursuing a D1 prospect and have thrown a bunch of points his way, what are the odds that a D1 or D2 school can swoop in and take him from me? if they’re rated ‘Low’ by the kid? Moderate? Very High even though i’ve promised more?

The odds that a D1 or D2 school CAN swoop in is probably close to 100% if they really want the recruit. They can go from Low to Signed in a single cycle if they have all of the recruiting actions unlocked. Its mainly a matter of how good the recruit is and what his signing preference is.

Correct. So for OP, as a D3 coach, you have to get comfy finding the sweet spot for targeted recruits. Not too good, because D1 and D2 coaches will steal them from you quickly. And not too bad because you need talent. It's arguably best to cast a wide net and have a lot of options, rather than loading up on 1 player.

Also at D3 signing preference is important. Early and EoP1 signers WANT to sign in RS1. You can not sign players until the last 24 hours of RS2. So this means if a higher division school starts to pursue your player, they can take him quickly before you're able to get to signing range.

Late signers are guaranteed to hang around until RS2. That gives you a bit more comfort. But still, if the player decides to sign in the first few cycles of RS2, you still won't be in range. But if he holds on for longer, you have a chance.

Whenever signers are exactly that, whenever they feel like signing. Risky, but sometimes they wait around. So always make sure you are at least aware of the signing preference of recruits you're targeting. That way, whatever stage of recruiting you're in, when you see a new school show up on the considering list for the first time, you understand what you're up against. As far as timing and options.

Most times, it's better to find other players. But in the right situations, it's ok to invest and dig in, and hope to fight off the other school. Lots of risks involved across the board tho

isn't it true that a d3 school has to keep a d2 school to true moderate as well, for d1 players, to avoid them signing if they are eligible to sign (player is ready)? which you can't even know in RS1, so you are basically having to keep them at low going into RS2 to think you might have a shot? that sounds brutal.

kind of feels like a d3 school has really close to zero standing to even consider competing with high division schools for a d1 recruit, until its late in recruiting and there are decent odds you don't need to be a very high - moderate favorite to sign that guy? and even then taken with significant caution? wondering if im missing something, i have zero personal experience on the issue. in the old game i was a fan of battling up a division, but the time advantage on signings seems too high a mountain to scale, unless that time has already elapsed (its late in recruiting). which in many cases makes it too late to battle competently on a d3 budget?

Posted by gillispie1 on 6/9/2020 6:19:00 PM (view original):
isn't it true that a d3 school has to keep a d2 school to true moderate as well, for d1 players, to avoid them signing if they are eligible to sign (player is ready)? which you can't even know in RS1, so you are basically having to keep them at low going into RS2 to think you might have a shot? that sounds brutal.

kind of feels like a d3 school has really close to zero standing to even consider competing with high division schools for a d1 recruit, until its late in recruiting and there are decent odds you don't need to be a very high - moderate favorite to sign that guy? and even then taken with significant caution? wondering if im missing something, i have zero personal experience on the issue. in the old game i was a fan of battling up a division, but the time advantage on signings seems too high a mountain to scale, unless that time has already elapsed (its late in recruiting). which in many cases makes it too late to battle competently on a d3 budget?

Yeah, I still haven't cracked this one. I took over DePauw in Phelan and only had RS2 to recruit. With 1 scholly left open, I found a really nice D1 center (who would be an elite starter at D3 or D2) who had been abandoned with 3-4 cycles left and poured by remaining AP into him...got him to 98% unlocked for scholarship on the final cycle and ended up taking a walk-on. He signed with like a D+ prestige SIM DI team.

However, that same team also signed a pretty low-end D1 PG (Stephen Schneider) on just AP and a scholarship offer without any competition even from SIM schools.

Posted by gillispie1 on 6/9/2020 6:19:00 PM (view original):
isn't it true that a d3 school has to keep a d2 school to true moderate as well, for d1 players, to avoid them signing if they are eligible to sign (player is ready)? which you can't even know in RS1, so you are basically having to keep them at low going into RS2 to think you might have a shot? that sounds brutal.

kind of feels like a d3 school has really close to zero standing to even consider competing with high division schools for a d1 recruit, until its late in recruiting and there are decent odds you don't need to be a very high - moderate favorite to sign that guy? and even then taken with significant caution? wondering if im missing something, i have zero personal experience on the issue. in the old game i was a fan of battling up a division, but the time advantage on signings seems too high a mountain to scale, unless that time has already elapsed (its late in recruiting). which in many cases makes it too late to battle competently on a d3 budget?

I think the opposite of what you're envisioning has actually been the norm -- D3 talent has exploded under v3 compared to version 2. I've had a handful of years where my overall team rating (not a great indicator but lets take it as the easiest proxy) would've been in the top 5 for D2 that year. Sane goes for average stats -- especially Ath and Def can easily end up mid-70s which, again, puts you in elite D2 company (at least on average). And my teams are far from the best most years..

The same trend also holds for individual players. Not across a whole roster but the top players would be elite in D2 as well.

That's because the worlds are empty in 3.0

Posted by marl_karx on 6/9/2020 8:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 6/9/2020 6:19:00 PM (view original):
isn't it true that a d3 school has to keep a d2 school to true moderate as well, for d1 players, to avoid them signing if they are eligible to sign (player is ready)? which you can't even know in RS1, so you are basically having to keep them at low going into RS2 to think you might have a shot? that sounds brutal.

kind of feels like a d3 school has really close to zero standing to even consider competing with high division schools for a d1 recruit, until its late in recruiting and there are decent odds you don't need to be a very high - moderate favorite to sign that guy? and even then taken with significant caution? wondering if im missing something, i have zero personal experience on the issue. in the old game i was a fan of battling up a division, but the time advantage on signings seems too high a mountain to scale, unless that time has already elapsed (its late in recruiting). which in many cases makes it too late to battle competently on a d3 budget?

I think the opposite of what you're envisioning has actually been the norm -- D3 talent has exploded under v3 compared to version 2. I've had a handful of years where my overall team rating (not a great indicator but lets take it as the easiest proxy) would've been in the top 5 for D2 that year. Sane goes for average stats -- especially Ath and Def can easily end up mid-70s which, again, puts you in elite D2 company (at least on average). And my teams are far from the best most years..

The same trend also holds for individual players. Not across a whole roster but the top players would be elite in D2 as well.

i wasn't asking about talent level, i was really asking about direct competition for the same recruit between a d3 school and a higher division school. d3 teams definitely look better than i remember, i'll give you that!

so those elite guys... guys who slipped through the presumably large cracks? or guys you battle for? and if the latter - are you basically waiting until the last 5 cycles for d1 recruits to make that move?

Posted by gillispie1 on 6/9/2020 10:47:00 PM (view original):

Posted by marl_karx on 6/9/2020 8:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 6/9/2020 6:19:00 PM (view original):
isn't it true that a d3 school has to keep a d2 school to true moderate as well, for d1 players, to avoid them signing if they are eligible to sign (player is ready)? which you can't even know in RS1, so you are basically having to keep them at low going into RS2 to think you might have a shot? that sounds brutal.

kind of feels like a d3 school has really close to zero standing to even consider competing with high division schools for a d1 recruit, until its late in recruiting and there are decent odds you don't need to be a very high - moderate favorite to sign that guy? and even then taken with significant caution? wondering if im missing something, i have zero personal experience on the issue. in the old game i was a fan of battling up a division, but the time advantage on signings seems too high a mountain to scale, unless that time has already elapsed (its late in recruiting). which in many cases makes it too late to battle competently on a d3 budget?

I think the opposite of what you're envisioning has actually been the norm -- D3 talent has exploded under v3 compared to version 2. I've had a handful of years where my overall team rating (not a great indicator but lets take it as the easiest proxy) would've been in the top 5 for D2 that year. Sane goes for average stats -- especially Ath and Def can easily end up mid-70s which, again, puts you in elite D2 company (at least on average). And my teams are far from the best most years..

The same trend also holds for individual players. Not across a whole roster but the top players would be elite in D2 as well.

i wasn't asking about talent level, i was really asking about direct competition for the same recruit between a d3 school and a higher division school. d3 teams definitely look better than i remember, i'll give you that!

so those elite guys... guys who slipped through the presumably large cracks? or guys you battle for? and if the latter - are you basically waiting until the last 5 cycles for d1 recruits to make that move?

Mully basically said it best. The worlds are so empty that players with good ratings DO slip to D3 now. Marl-karx wasn't really discussing "the fight" for a recruit. And more about the talent level, indirectly

I would agree that its EXTREMELY difficult as a D3 school to "fend off" a higher division school. In a real battle. It would all have to come down to two things basically. 1) the recruit just decides to sign late, giving the D3 a chance. Or 2) a D3 invests all/most of budget, and the higher division school that's involved decides to do what a D3 school normally does..... just looks elsewhere for a free recruit that is just as good or close.

The D3 budget is so small, they have to have a big class and invest most of that budget on one player to create a battle. The cheapest "all in" is about $4600. That's 4+ openings needed to even have a chance at doing that.

I don't speak from experience. I'm just looking at recruiting dollars as a guideline.

Those are nice pat answers and they might be correct but I have questions

1. Has anyone compiled world population data over time? Do the hard numbers reflect a mass exodus with the implementation of version 3? Slow ongoing drain?

2. Is recruit generation not at all scaled to the number of human players?

3. Re:'asking about direct competition between levels': how much does that matter? Just because the dividing lines are not flashing green neon runway lights doesn't mean that there isn't a segmentation between divisions. So if there were perpetual inter-division clashes it seems like they would be the result of a) lower division overreach or b)upper division settling, both of which seem unsustainable and/or reflect borderline player incompetence.

I push the question in this direction because the question whether D3 can win battles is not very interesting (basically they can't) and the proffered theory/explanation for D3 teams thriving ins spite of this (superabundance of talent comapred to number of players where it more or less grows on trees) a)lacks any kind of a baseline since it is not clear what talent is defined relative to b) fails to account for the current DISTRIBUTION of talent unless almost all (lower division?) players are considered incompetent.