I try and recruit higher WE players as I think we all do, but sometimes a player with lower WE is just too tempting. I recruited this player because I already like most of his stats (minus Stamina) this could be a big issue and he already knew my Defense so he can come in and be a good defensive contributor right away.

Now I know starting someone with low WE is the most beneficial in reaching anywhere near their potential but I have a six man class already that are pretty solid players and I don’t want to ruin a chance to have a good season by starting him (though even if I started him, with his low Stamina he won’t play a lot anyway??)

I will track his progress and this will determine if I try this strategy again in the future. Any tips or advice is appreciated.

https://imgur.com/n4L5doC

That stamina! Going to be really rough to grow ST with that WE.

Other than that, I've see much worse at D1.

Posted by Benis on 6/25/2020 11:38:00 PM (view original):
That stamina! Going to be really rough to grow ST with that WE.

Other than that, I've see much worse at D1.

Any idea on how many minutes to expect to get out of him, I might of promised him 15 minutes as well, that might be borderline pushing it??

I don't think you'll ever get him above 50 stamina tbh. Maybe 55? Wonder what'll happen at 9 WE if you literally put all your practice points in conditioning.

For Boise State I think he is a fine recruit but will only play 10-15min

Playing FB you’re going to legitimately struggle to get him close to 15 minutes and fulfill the promise. Set him to tired fatigue and leave in longer against teams you will for sure lose/win against.

See I look at press totally different. If your comment about "6 man class" means you have 6 good seniors, I'd DEFINITELY start him. First off it'll obviously benefit him. But, I feel it would benefit the team. With press, I like balance. I don't want my 5 best Srs starting. I like to have a guy or two off the bench that are quality players. I've never in my career had 5 Sr starters on a press team. One of the strengths of press is relying on your depth. And if your depth has a Sr or two, it'll help your bench outperform your opponents bench. With him as a starter, just set him to 0 distro and allow the other 4 starters more opportunities. There's only 1 ball

Posted by topdogggbm on 6/26/2020 6:51:00 AM (view original):
See I look at press totally different. If your comment about "6 man class" means you have 6 good seniors, I'd DEFINITELY start him. First off it'll obviously benefit him. But, I feel it would benefit the team. With press, I like balance. I don't want my 5 best Srs starting. I like to have a guy or two off the bench that are quality players. I've never in my career had 5 Sr starters on a press team. One of the strengths of press is relying on your depth. And if your depth has a Sr or two, it'll help your bench outperform your opponents bench. With him as a starter, just set him to 0 distro and allow the other 4 starters more opportunities. There's only 1 ball

Well I think you got confused from the prior comment or assumed I was press because of the fast break offense, however, I run a man-to-man defense, so not sure if that changes your thoughts. However, I tend to agree with you, I like to have some upperclassmen come off the bench, I fee like it gives a batter balanced attack and a jolt off the bench.

So, I tend to think maybe I will start him immediately.

Posted by rowle1js on 6/26/2020 8:43:00 AM (view original):

Posted by topdogggbm on 6/26/2020 6:51:00 AM (view original):
See I look at press totally different. If your comment about "6 man class" means you have 6 good seniors, I'd DEFINITELY start him. First off it'll obviously benefit him. But, I feel it would benefit the team. With press, I like balance. I don't want my 5 best Srs starting. I like to have a guy or two off the bench that are quality players. I've never in my career had 5 Sr starters on a press team. One of the strengths of press is relying on your depth. And if your depth has a Sr or two, it'll help your bench outperform your opponents bench. With him as a starter, just set him to 0 distro and allow the other 4 starters more opportunities. There's only 1 ball

Well I think you got confused from the prior comment or assumed I was press because of the fast break offense, however, I run a man-to-man defense, so not sure if that changes your thoughts. However, I tend to agree with you, I like to have some upperclassmen come off the bench, I fee like it gives a batter balanced attack and a jolt off the bench.

So, I tend to think maybe I will start him immediately.

I definitely jumped the gun. I guess I saw multiple comments about ST and just "assumed" press. My apologies

Yeah, you have to start this guy. 43 stamina is pretty ridiculous.

i generally think one must approach low WE players with the 'they must start their first 3 seasons' view. however, this guy is so low, im not thinking he's ever going to improve materially. he's looking at something like a 17 to end jr year if you start him for 3 seasons straight - that is still going to lead to really crappy improvement.

the combo of we + sta makes this a hard pass for me in any scheme in d1. however, now that you have him, i would just look at him as a career bench player. this is not a guy i would waste 3 seasons of starts on.

i totally get dogg's point, although i've certainly had my 5 most experienced guys (including 5 seniors) start on press teams, it really depends who your backups are if you need to mix up your better and lesser players. i would say the default case is to run your best 5 on the starting lineup and then mix up as required for offense, which is common, but i would say far from certainly necessary (50/50 ballpark, varying by circumstance).

what i will say in the same vein though is, player development remains an essential part of this game. not as essential as 1.0 before potential, but still VERY important. as you get better (not sure where you are in the spectrum, if its easy for you to hold an a+ most seasons in your longer term d2/d3 programs, you are probably there - if not, then probably not) - you really need to focus on player development holistically. this necessarily means practice planning + EE planning + regular season start/PT modifications to get better guys more PT. if you are playing your regular season to win as many games as possible - that's fine - but know that such an approach breaks down as you start competing in the upper echelons. in 2.0 when starts were way less important and less common, i started really young teams every season anyway. its just too important.

the reason is this - starting your seniors isn't making them better - starting your fr/so yields cumulative, compounding dividends - just like investing for retirement when you are young. that +5 WE as a fr pays dividends for 3 off seasons and 3 seasons (until you max, anyway). if you add 5 more as soph, you can see how this really adds up. how prepared your end-of-season sophs are for the NT is one of the major differentiators between the teams who win the championships and the teams who don't.

I would look at it this way - a 90/90 ath/def frontcourt player with decent 75-85 rebounding is a useful player on any team; even high D1 this is a useful bench player, even if he is never a scorer. So what do you have to do to get him there? The WE makes it tricky, especially because there are few obvious development areas you can punt without losing multiple points every year - this is why I always prefer low we players come with a few reds. I agree with gil, I don’t think I’d plan on working too hard to move his we up, the opportunity cost is too high for the meager reward. You’ll surely have better places to invest in that kind of growth with starts and pushing pt. I’d just try to develop this guy into a solid 10-12 minute frontcourt defender off the bench by the end of his soph season, and he’s really not that far. Should be doable. My approach would be to punt the scoring (LP/per) completely, 0 out. I’d put minimum maintenance (6-7) on ballhandling and FT. I’d try to get 20 each on conditioning and footwork, then split the rest between rebounding and passing; with FB, you could probably punt passing too, but it being green, it will drop super fast if he’s not getting lots of pt.

Assuming you run 20/20 in sets I would do:

Conditioning 30
FW 23
Reb 20
PER 0
BH 0
PA 17
FT 0

Feel most strongly about 0 per/bh/ft. No reason to put any minutes in non-core blacks. No reason to put any minutes in PER/FT given he is a 0 distro player.

Posted by cubcub113 on 6/26/2020 2:27:00 PM (view original):
Assuming you run 20/20 in sets I would do:

Conditioning 30
FW 23
Reb 20
PER 0
BH 0
PA 17
FT 0

Feel most strongly about 0 per/bh/ft. No reason to put any minutes in non-core blacks. No reason to put any minutes in PER/FT given he is a 0 distro player.

7.0.3

Nothing wrong with that approach, really. Personal coaching preference I guess. I opt to maintain the ballhandling and ft, because I may want this player to have *some* distribution as an upperclassman with B+ and up IQ. 0 out those categories, and I’m pretty sure they will both drop precipitously for a 9 work ethic guy. I think I recall losing 4-5 points per season in a 0ed-out black attribute for a low WE guy not seeing lots of pt; so over 4 seasons, looking at BH drop of ~15+? Not sure exactly, but it’s not insignificant. To gain what exactly in conditioning - not sure. Maybe an extra point per season in speed and stamina with the extra minutes? Probably less than that in ath. If you have projections you are confident in for that level, I’d be interested, since I don’t study this stuff.