I had always used 125 AP as the value of a ship based on % of CV unlocked calculations I did forever ago.

However, I was just unlocking starts/minutes on a highly ranked recruit using this number and I only got to 98% using 125 AP. Looks like its actually more like 125-128? Anyone else use a number slightly higher than 125 or did I just mess up the rounding or something....

Varies by recruit slightly by recruit

Posted by ningles on 6/28/2020 12:32:00 PM (view original):
Varies by recruit slightly by recruit

Hmm... I didn't think this was true.

I thought all Ships, Starts, Minutes, HVs, CVs had a hidden but constant AP equivalent.

We know for certain that the impact of AP varies slightly by recruit so by your own logic even if the relationship of offering a scholarship maintains a constant equivalent to AP, the impact will still vary.

I'm guessing this is a D1 A+ question only?! I've had players take 200 AP to even unlock a ship. Depending on my prestige, preferences, etc.

I surely just don't understand what you're asking I guess. Why would every single recruit cost the same to unlock?

Agreed I’ve always noticed it varies by recruit and I would assume who is recruiting them.

An AP's value will definitely change depending on how your prestige and preferences line up, though probably less noticeable at A+ prestige. So I'm not sure how it would be a fixed number recruit-to-recruit. This is easy to calculate once you've placed AP on a recruit and can compare it to the percentage it unlocks.

I don't know if there are any other factors, like a hidden player attribute, that works in a similar way to how redshirt acceptance works. I haven't noticed one if it exists.

I swear I'm being pretty clear about what I'm asking but since people are misunderstanding me clearly I am doing something wrong: I am not talking about the AP needed to unlock a ship. That changes based upon players.

I am talking about the value of a ship in APs. For example, we consider the value of an HV in AP to be 40-60 or whatever. I have been using 125 for Ship but that appears to be wrong.

Offering a ship always seems to unlock HV and most of the time unlocks starts/minutes. However, this is sometimes not the case.

Knowing the value of a ship in APs is important to unlock starts/minutes in the case where you current APs + ship is not enough.


Here is my example for other math geeks who go for peak efficiency in unlocking actions:

Assume it is 2.5x harder to unlock a start than a ship on a given player (known fact)
Assume 1 ship = 125 AP worth of effort (known fact...assuming they made it an integer)

I know it took me 89 AP to unlock a ship offer on this player. I know that I can then be sure that 88*2.5 - 89*2.5 = 220 - 225.5 AP is the range of the possibly AP it will take for me to unlock starts.

I have 90 AP on a player and an offer. I would usually consider this to be worth 215 AP of effort. It says I'm 97.5-98.5% of the way there.

Based on my math I am 215/220 - 215/225.5 % or 95.3%- 97.7% of the way there.

I know I am 97.5-97.7% of the way there based on the overlap here.

215/97.7% - 215/97.5% or 220.1 - 220.51 is the range of APs it takes to unlock a start on this guy.

Therefore I need to put on 221 APs total. I already have 215 on. I put on 6 AP this cycle to ensure unlocking a start and nothing more.

Note how all the math matches up here; they are no contradictions. This is good. I did this math on a guy with my D+ Nebraska Iba team by the way.


Earlier I got a contradiction on a player while doing this math no matter what I did using 125 as my number. Either I'm making a mathematical error or the value of a ship isn't exactly 125. What I'm asking here is whether anyone else has found a ship to not exactly be worth 125 AP when doing player unlock math. I'm guessing not and I just made a mistake as it really wouldn't make sense for WIS to say that 1 ship = 127 AP or something.

I'd estimate the scholarship offer has a shade more value than 125 AP. For rounding purposes I weigh it at 130.

Posted by cubcub113 on 6/28/2020 3:20:00 PM (view original):
I swear I'm being pretty clear about what I'm asking but since people are misunderstanding me clearly I am doing something wrong: I am not talking about the AP needed to unlock a ship. That changes based upon players.

I am talking about the value of a ship in APs. For example, we consider the value of an HV in AP to be 40-60 or whatever. I have been using 125 for Ship but that appears to be wrong.

Offering a ship always seems to unlock HV and most of the time unlocks starts/minutes. However, this is sometimes not the case.

Knowing the value of a ship in APs is important to unlock starts/minutes in the case where you current APs + ship is not enough.


Here is my example for other math geeks who go for peak efficiency in unlocking actions:

Assume it is 2.5x harder to unlock a start than a ship on a given player (known fact)
Assume 1 ship = 125 AP worth of effort (known fact...assuming they made it an integer)

I know it took me 89 AP to unlock a ship offer on this player. I know that I can then be sure that 88*2.5 - 89*2.5 = 220 - 225.5 AP is the range of the possibly AP it will take for me to unlock starts.

I have 90 AP on a player and an offer. I would usually consider this to be worth 215 AP of effort. It says I'm 97.5-98.5% of the way there.

Based on my math I am 215/220 - 215/225.5 % or 95.3%- 97.7% of the way there.

I know I am 97.5-97.7% of the way there based on the overlap here.

215/97.7% - 215/97.5% or 220.1 - 220.51 is the range of APs it takes to unlock a start on this guy.

Therefore I need to put on 221 APs total. I already have 215 on. I put on 6 AP this cycle to ensure unlocking a start and nothing more.

Note how all the math matches up here; they are no contradictions. This is good.


Earlier I got a contradiction on a player while doing this math no matter what I did using 125 as my number. Either I'm making a mathematical error or the value of a ship isn't exactly 125. What I'm asking here is whether anyone else has found a ship to not exactly be worth 125 AP when doing player unlock math. I'm guessing not and I just made a mistake as it really wouldn't make sense for WIS to say that 1 ship = 127 AP or something.

7.0.3

I think most of us understand what your saying and it’s still the same answer, maybe 125 AP is around what you’ve noticed for the players you recruit but it will never be uniform. A low DI school will not get 125 AP worth of effort if a high DI got 125 AP from the same recruit. I think that’s the point, that’s it’s never the same.

Posted by oldwarrior on 6/28/2020 3:15:00 PM (view original):
I'd estimate the scholarship offer has a shade more value than 125 AP. For rounding purposes I weigh it at 130.

Thanks for the response. For what its worth, I am nearly sure the value of a ship isn't more than 128 or less than 125.

This is unless it isn't 2.5 times harder to unlock a start than a ship. Again, 2.5 seems like a much nicer number than 2.52 so I just assumed it was 2.5.

But yeah, 130 seems like a good idea so I don't mess up again.

Posted by rowle1js on 6/28/2020 3:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cubcub113 on 6/28/2020 3:20:00 PM (view original):
I swear I'm being pretty clear about what I'm asking but since people are misunderstanding me clearly I am doing something wrong: I am not talking about the AP needed to unlock a ship. That changes based upon players.

I am talking about the value of a ship in APs. For example, we consider the value of an HV in AP to be 40-60 or whatever. I have been using 125 for Ship but that appears to be wrong.

Offering a ship always seems to unlock HV and most of the time unlocks starts/minutes. However, this is sometimes not the case.

Knowing the value of a ship in APs is important to unlock starts/minutes in the case where you current APs + ship is not enough.


Here is my example for other math geeks who go for peak efficiency in unlocking actions:

Assume it is 2.5x harder to unlock a start than a ship on a given player (known fact)
Assume 1 ship = 125 AP worth of effort (known fact...assuming they made it an integer)

I know it took me 89 AP to unlock a ship offer on this player. I know that I can then be sure that 88*2.5 - 89*2.5 = 220 - 225.5 AP is the range of the possibly AP it will take for me to unlock starts.

I have 90 AP on a player and an offer. I would usually consider this to be worth 215 AP of effort. It says I'm 97.5-98.5% of the way there.

Based on my math I am 215/220 - 215/225.5 % or 95.3%- 97.7% of the way there.

I know I am 97.5-97.7% of the way there based on the overlap here.

215/97.7% - 215/97.5% or 220.1 - 220.51 is the range of APs it takes to unlock a start on this guy.

Therefore I need to put on 221 APs total. I already have 215 on. I put on 6 AP this cycle to ensure unlocking a start and nothing more.

Note how all the math matches up here; they are no contradictions. This is good.


Earlier I got a contradiction on a player while doing this math no matter what I did using 125 as my number. Either I'm making a mathematical error or the value of a ship isn't exactly 125. What I'm asking here is whether anyone else has found a ship to not exactly be worth 125 AP when doing player unlock math. I'm guessing not and I just made a mistake as it really wouldn't make sense for WIS to say that 1 ship = 127 AP or something.

7.0.3

I think most of us understand what your saying and it’s still the same answer, maybe 125 AP is around what you’ve noticed for the players you recruit but it will never be uniform. A low DI school will not get 125 AP worth of effort if a high DI got 125 AP from the same recruit. I think that’s the point, that’s it’s never the same.

I want to be clear I'm talking about how many of my AP my ship is worth. That number is constant. 125 has worked for me on about 60/61 recruits from DIIIs recruiting DIs to recruiting an unranked D1 player at A+.

Not how many general AP my ship is worth.

Posted by oldwarrior on 6/28/2020 3:15:00 PM (view original):
I'd estimate the scholarship offer has a shade more value than 125 AP. For rounding purposes I weigh it at 130.

I think I'm going to start using 130, though. Thanks for that. Its better to be over on this than under and spend an extra AP instead of leaving a guy unlocked. I'm all for efficiency, but 1 AP is not very much to waste for the security of unlocking a guy.

Gotcha, your saying 125-130 AP worth of effort for the team placing the scholarship but obviously depending on which team is doing so, their AP would be worth more or less than someone else’s. Understood. Carry on.

Posted by rowle1js on 6/28/2020 3:30:00 PM (view original):
Gotcha, your saying 125-130 AP worth of effort for the team placing the scholarship but obviously depending on which team is doing so, their AP would be worth more or less than someone else’s. Understood. Carry on.

Yeah, I wasn't clear on that at all. Really sorry there. For all of those reading I would say using 130 and just forgetting the math is probably the best thing to do. A lot of work to save 1 AP per cycle doesn't seem worth it.