Just curious to get some thoughts and opinions on what do people value more when analyzing player’s potential? You do value the overall ratings more (80+) Or would you value a guy with a lower overall like (65) put they have high Lefty/Righty numbers in the 75 or 80 range?

Do you feel the guy with the lesser overall has as much potential as the higher overall even though the higher overall rated guy may have lower lefty/rightly numbers?

I give no value in over all rating only individual ratings. Each rating is valued differently and some in combination with other ratings. Ex all ratings of "80" are not weighted the same.

@brianp87 so for you, you would rather have a hitter with a 75 overall rating and lefty/righty over 80 than a hitter with an 85 overall and a lefty/righty in the 50’s or 60’s?

I don't care about overall rating. It doesn't figure into how the player performs. Their individual ratings matter. Period.

Overall was probably created to determine how to compare players, but the way it works doesn't reflect the true value of a player.

I would want the overall player rated a 75 with 80 splits for lefty/righty

It depends on a lot of stuff. What values are worth the most to you, what you are trying to fill, and value vs cost. Generally, higher overall rating means the player will ask for more money in arbitration and free agency so you have to determine if they are worth it.

Here is a prime 'Apples to apples' example we were talking about in another thread.

(don't worry about the age for a second)

Aaron Miniziconni is a 3rd baseman that can play 3rd base, hit between 20 - 30 homeruns, steal 20 - 30 bases and play a full 162 game season. He is also a 87 overall rating and recently cost me 8.7 million a year on a long term deal.

Howard Moeller is a below average 1st baseman that should hit over 30 homeruns a year, may dip his toes into 40 homeruns occasionally, Can't steal bases, and should play between 130 and 140 games a year. He also costs me 5.1 million a year. He is also a 73 rating overall.

If you changed or removed the names of the two players and just posted the 'after blurb' I would probably take Moeller 9 times out of 10. The 10th time being I really need a 3B and are willing to pay for it. For me, Moeller does everything I want Miniziconni to do, but costs 3.6 million less a year I can spend elsewhere. Miniziconni does a bunch of other stuff that Moeller doesn't do....... but I don't really want him to do any of it and I'm paying all that extra money for it.

Edit: Also look at the slash line for the two players at bat. Would you rather have a player that consistently hits 282/370/499 or a player that consistently hits 248/314/449? I can always find a roster spot for the first slash line, for the second, the guy has to do a lot of other stuff well for me to find a position for him.

Posted by nycguy11 on 12/7/2020 1:13:00 PM (view original):
@brianp87 so for you, you would rather have a hitter with a 75 overall rating and lefty/righty over 80 than a hitter with an 85 overall and a lefty/righty in the 50’s or 60’s?

Depends on the other ratings VR and VL are not all I would look at.

I always prefer the higher OVR guy. Take this guy for instance:

Player Profile: Herb Wilson - Hardball Dynasty Baseball | WhatIfSports

Looking only at his hitting attributes, you like what you see. 79 CON, 39 POW, 86 vL, 96 vR, 80 EYE.

But then you see 73 OVR and you know something is up. In this case, he has low durability, low health rating, no speed whatsoever, and is pretty much limited to RF/1B. He's essentially a singles hitter who won't strike out much.

So for me, the OVR rating is useful because it gives you an indicator that a guy who has very good hitting splits is certainly limited in plenty of ways.

Posted by mannytanner on 12/7/2020 1:33:00 PM (view original):
I always prefer the higher OVR guy. Take this guy for instance:

Player Profile: Herb Wilson - Hardball Dynasty Baseball | WhatIfSports

Looking only at his hitting attributes, you like what you see. 79 CON, 39 POW, 86 vL, 96 vR, 80 EYE.

But then you see 73 OVR and you know something is up. In this case, he has low durability, low health rating, no speed whatsoever, and is pretty much limited to RF/1B. He's essentially a singles hitter who won't strike out much.

So for me, the OVR rating is useful because it gives you an indicator that a guy who has very good hitting splits is certainly limited in plenty of ways.

If Wilson could run he'd be the type of player I'd look for on every team I have. One of the best players I ever drafted outside of the first round was
Gregory Goldman singles arn't that big of a deal when every other single/walk turns into a double thanks to the stolen base.

Posted by hockey1984 on 12/7/2020 1:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mannytanner on 12/7/2020 1:33:00 PM (view original):
I always prefer the higher OVR guy. Take this guy for instance:

Player Profile: Herb Wilson - Hardball Dynasty Baseball | WhatIfSports

Looking only at his hitting attributes, you like what you see. 79 CON, 39 POW, 86 vL, 96 vR, 80 EYE.

But then you see 73 OVR and you know something is up. In this case, he has low durability, low health rating, no speed whatsoever, and is pretty much limited to RF/1B. He's essentially a singles hitter who won't strike out much.

So for me, the OVR rating is useful because it gives you an indicator that a guy who has very good hitting splits is certainly limited in plenty of ways.

If Wilson could run he'd be the type of player I'd look for on every team I have. One of the best players I ever drafted outside of the first round was
Gregory Goldman singles arn't that big of a deal when every other single/walk turns into a double thanks to the stolen base.

Yep, I love guys like that.

But that's exactly why to me, OVR rating is important because at a glance you know Wilson's OVR is likely dragged down by speed, defense, durability, etc.

A guy have have splits in the 90's and still suck. A guy can have splits in the 40's and be a stud.

Posted by mannytanner on 12/7/2020 1:43:00 PM (view original):

Posted by hockey1984 on 12/7/2020 1:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mannytanner on 12/7/2020 1:33:00 PM (view original):
I always prefer the higher OVR guy. Take this guy for instance:

Player Profile: Herb Wilson - Hardball Dynasty Baseball | WhatIfSports

Looking only at his hitting attributes, you like what you see. 79 CON, 39 POW, 86 vL, 96 vR, 80 EYE.

But then you see 73 OVR and you know something is up. In this case, he has low durability, low health rating, no speed whatsoever, and is pretty much limited to RF/1B. He's essentially a singles hitter who won't strike out much.

So for me, the OVR rating is useful because it gives you an indicator that a guy who has very good hitting splits is certainly limited in plenty of ways.

If Wilson could run he'd be the type of player I'd look for on every team I have. One of the best players I ever drafted outside of the first round was
Gregory Goldman singles arn't that big of a deal when every other single/walk turns into a double thanks to the stolen base.

Yep, I love guys like that.

But that's exactly why to me, OVR rating is important because at a glance you know Wilson's OVR is likely dragged down by speed, defense, durability, etc.

This approach makes sense. Just be aware it also works in the exact opposite way.

Every draft I look at, if you just sort by Overall rating you'll find, near the top, a handful of high-Overall players who look like they won't hit in the majors... not anywhere even close to your Wilson guy... or high-Overall pitchers with one or two critical failure ratings, like super low control or vsR.

Invariably, you know those players have 90+ DUR (or DUR/STA for pitchers). They're probably second basemen without elite range. And they are exactly the type of players who end up in the Rule 5 draft.

@nycguy11-- OVR? Fuhgeddaboudit.

Seriously-- agree with brianp87. OVR is only important because it is a major determinant of salary demands. It has no other intrinsic importance.

@dedelman and @brianp87 so you think you can find players with OVRs in the 70’s let’s say, but with strong other ratings and build a contending ML team by that approach?

I do agree that the OVR seems to inflate salary demands for players that really don’t deserve the money. Mediocre at best.

Posted by dedelman on 12/7/2020 4:05:00 PM (view original):
@nycguy11-- OVR? Fuhgeddaboudit.

Seriously-- agree with brianp87. OVR is only important because it is a major determinant of salary demands. It has no other intrinsic importance.

Overall rating is also an important component when the Sim determines FA comp picks.

I usually have a decent team at the major league level so I rarely get to draft guys in the 85+ overall rating range so I'm usually trading for them or signing them in free agency. I am not a fan of the $8mm+ a year contracts for those 3b that play every day either. I would much prefer to have an inexpensive guy that fields and hits the same or better, but needs some rest from time to time. I can use player rest judiciously. However, there is something to be said about the guy that you can set and forget at a position even if he is expensive.

To me the two problems above are good problems to have -- paying $8mm+ for a 3b that can overplay 3b and offer 750 Ops while playing every day is a good problem to have and paying 5.5 for a guy that can overplay 3b and offer 750 ops, but needs some extra rest is a good problem to have. Much better than overpaying in FA or having a 625 Ops guy or a guy that makes a bunch of errors. To answer your question, the ideal player is the guy has a lower overall rating, but offers great hitting or great fielding or both. If the flaw is durability, that can be worked around through management. The 1b, C, LF positions should give you an opportunity to save money and sometimes you can get away with putting a C in RF to save money as well. Those CF, SS, 2b and 3b can get expensive. The SS that can hit are rare and are an absolute blessing if you can get them so I will never complain about those guys.

Somebody mentioned the expensive tweeners that seem to be in every draft class. I try to steer clear of these guys. Typically they come out as a 2b and they have 90+ durability and health, but lack glove or range to overplay CF or 2b and lack the bat for LF/RF/1b. Yet, they will cost you $8mm+ once they hit arb2.