Nuff said. Suck it LOSERS! :)

You must be a fun guy to play a game of pick-up basketball with.

Seriously, the outcomes of single-part control of the legislature and White House are almost never good. Go look up, for example, economic trends during divided vs. single-party governments over the past 60 years and maybe reconsider your celebration.

no

Posted by dahsdebater on 1/6/2021 10:51:00 AM (view original):
You must be a fun guy to play a game of pick-up basketball with.

Seriously, the outcomes of single-part control of the legislature and White House are almost never good. Go look up, for example, economic trends during divided vs. single-party governments over the past 60 years and maybe reconsider your celebration.

Evidently you are not realizing that the republicans are now an authoritarian party and old norms are shattered.
For 2 years Obama had a congress and Obamacare got done.
the days of Republican cooperation are long gone the wisdom of divided congress with a dem President is outdated to say the least.

why did you have to insult others.
you can make your point without doing that.

Trumpism: A skid mark on the underpants of humanity

It's true that the Party that we KNEW as the Republican Party is no more. A great reckoning is coming for those folks and a huge re-alignment is likely. Don't know how it will all shake out but my guess is that two new Parties will emerge and one will still use the Rep. label. One of the two "factions' will be the newer "converts" (TP-ers and Trumpets/anti Fed group including KKK types and associated malcontents), the more radical tear it all down folks because the good 'ol US of A is no more/has been stolen by THEM and we need to reclaim it and clean it up bunch.

The "other" faction will be the moderate Conservative types like Kasich, Flake, Romney, Bush's, etc.

FWIW, I also think a great shakeup is coming for the Dems as well. Probably AFTER the Republican internal battle.

No Party can hold together folks as disparate in belief as the farthest left wing of the Dems. (AOC, etc) and also retain more moderate (even fiscally conservative libs like me) traditional heartland Dems who are (generally) the swing votes in the Country. Going back clear to Truman's surprise victory it's this "silent majority" voter who decides our elections I think. The conservative DEMS and the moderate/liberal REPUBS.

By 2028 (I may not be around to find out) I suspect we'll have 4 Party's.
Maybe that's a good thing!

Sure hope so bob. Sure hope so.

Posted by dino27 on 1/6/2021 11:08:00 AM (view original):

Posted by dahsdebater on 1/6/2021 10:51:00 AM (view original):
You must be a fun guy to play a game of pick-up basketball with.

Seriously, the outcomes of single-part control of the legislature and White House are almost never good. Go look up, for example, economic trends during divided vs. single-party governments over the past 60 years and maybe reconsider your celebration.

Evidently you are not realizing that the republicans are now an authoritarian party and old norms are shattered.
For 2 years Obama had a congress and Obamacare got done.
the days of Republican cooperation are long gone the wisdom of divided congress with a dem President is outdated to say the least.

why did you have to insult others.
you can make your point without doing that.

Yes, we have no problem with all caps LOSERS, but what I said is insulting to others.

Yeah, the ACA "got done." You may recall that I think the ACA is an unmitigated disaster. The evidence is on my side. You are not. Whatever. It's not worth rehashing.

This part is unambiguous: US GDP per capita. 2009 and 2010 were easily the worst growth years of Obama's presidency. In fact, 2009 was the worst year on the 1960-present graph. By 3.5% - a massive margin. The narrative Democrats like to build is that Obama had to fix Bush's problems. But GDP grew throughout Bush's presidency. 2009 was also the single largest year for growth in unemployment from 1990 to covid.

Republicans want to blame this on Democrats. But they are also wrong. Bush's worst years for real economic growth were with a Republican Congress as well. Single-party control is consistently bad.

I agree on the Republican civil war - this authoritarian party is the tea party enhanced by trump and trumpism and trump- pets.
on the democrats side the squad definitely causes friction but it is still only 5 and okc and Omar are still willing to remain party loyal and indicated by their vote support for Pelosi and okc’s affirmative statement that she could not personally do the job as speaker.
gor the time being I see some occasional bickering and demands but not a split.

Single Party control HAS been historically a negative from an economics perspective. I don't question that. In fact I do prefer a divided Government, at least during normal times. Politics can be defined as the "art" of compromise. When we don't get ANY compromise, in fact when the Party members get "crucified" for being seen as willing to compromise with the "other" team, divided Government ceases to function at all.

I think that's where we've been since the election of Obama and Mitch M's open stance to make sure Obama "failed". Our Government has essentially ceased to function on behalf of the American people. For the last 10 years Congress only served itself. The only priority worth compromise was on issues that kept power/money in their own hands. We all (us citizens/businesses, etc) had to "sacrifice" for the good of the whole. Stay home, shut down our businesses, etc. Have you seen ANY member of Congress sacrifice one single thing to this battle with COVID - 19??

Did they lose 1 single dollar to the sacrifice, when so many of their constituents have lost so much!!!???

Divided Government at this time of our History, when 1 of the "divisions" is so intent on the failure of the other side, even at the expense of the Country as a whole is certainly NOT better than competent RESPONSIBLE Democratic Governance, IF President Biden will TRULY be a leader for ALL the People!

I sincerely hope he will.

Posted by laramiebob on 1/6/2021 11:22:00 AM (view original):
It's true that the Party that we KNEW as the Republican Party is no more. A great reckoning is coming for those folks and a huge re-alignment is likely. Don't know how it will all shake out but my guess is that two new Parties will emerge and one will still use the Rep. label. One of the two "factions' will be the newer "converts" (TP-ers and Trumpets/anti Fed group including KKK types and associated malcontents), the more radical tear it all down folks because the good 'ol US of A is no more/has been stolen by THEM and we need to reclaim it and clean it up bunch.

The "other" faction will be the moderate Conservative types like Kasich, Flake, Romney, Bush's, etc.

FWIW, I also think a great shakeup is coming for the Dems as well. Probably AFTER the Republican internal battle.

No Party can hold together folks as disparate in belief as the farthest left wing of the Dems. (AOC, etc) and also retain more moderate (even fiscally conservative libs like me) traditional heartland Dems who are (generally) the swing votes in the Country. Going back clear to Truman's surprise victory it's this "silent majority" voter who decides our elections I think. The conservative DEMS and the moderate/liberal REPUBS.

By 2028 (I may not be around to find out) I suspect we'll have 4 Party's.
Maybe that's a good thing!

we have more than 4 parties now, but other than the main 2, no party has a shot to win anything. If we have 4 parties they need to be parties that can run decent candidates and actually have a shot to win something.

Posted by laramiebob on 1/6/2021 12:20:00 PM (view original):
Single Party control HAS been historically a negative from an economics perspective. I don't question that. In fact I do prefer a divided Government, at least during normal times. Politics can be defined as the "art" of compromise. When we don't get ANY compromise, in fact when the Party members get "crucified" for being seen as willing to compromise with the "other" team, divided Government ceases to function at all.

I think that's where we've been since the election of Obama and Mitch M's open stance to make sure Obama "failed". Our Government has essentially ceased to function on behalf of the American people. For the last 10 years Congress only served itself. The only priority worth compromise was on issues that kept power/money in their own hands. We all (us citizens/businesses, etc) had to "sacrifice" for the good of the whole. Stay home, shut down our businesses, etc. Have you seen ANY member of Congress sacrifice one single thing to this battle with COVID - 19??

Did they lose 1 single dollar to the sacrifice, when so many of their constituents have lost so much!!!???

Divided Government at this time of our History, when 1 of the "divisions" is so intent on the failure of the other side, even at the expense of the Country as a whole is certainly NOT better than competent RESPONSIBLE Democratic Governance, IF President Biden will TRULY be a leader for ALL the People!

I sincerely hope he will.

Excellent post.

Posted by laramiebob on 1/6/2021 11:22:00 AM (view original):
It's true that the Party that we KNEW as the Republican Party is no more. A great reckoning is coming for those folks and a huge re-alignment is likely. Don't know how it will all shake out but my guess is that two new Parties will emerge and one will still use the Rep. label. One of the two "factions' will be the newer "converts" (TP-ers and Trumpets/anti Fed group including KKK types and associated malcontents), the more radical tear it all down folks because the good 'ol US of A is no more/has been stolen by THEM and we need to reclaim it and clean it up bunch.

The "other" faction will be the moderate Conservative types like Kasich, Flake, Romney, Bush's, etc.

FWIW, I also think a great shakeup is coming for the Dems as well. Probably AFTER the Republican internal battle.

No Party can hold together folks as disparate in belief as the farthest left wing of the Dems. (AOC, etc) and also retain more moderate (even fiscally conservative libs like me) traditional heartland Dems who are (generally) the swing votes in the Country. Going back clear to Truman's surprise victory it's this "silent majority" voter who decides our elections I think. The conservative DEMS and the moderate/liberal REPUBS.

By 2028 (I may not be around to find out) I suspect we'll have 4 Party's.
Maybe that's a good thing!

I don't think this is right. It just doesn't make sense given the realities of our presidential election system. Direct election of the POTUS (ok, maybe not direct, but it's not a PM situation) with the requirement for a majority, rather than a plurality, really only lends itself to a two-party system. At most you could see a party splinter for one presidential election cycle. After they get crushed - as the Democrats did in 1860 in spite of combining to absolutely dominate Lincoln in the popular vote - they'd find enough common ground to come back together before the following midterm. There's very little chance of your 4-party vision of the future. Every presidential election would be thrown to the house in that scenario. We'd effectively lose direct election of the POTUS. People would absolutely find a way to consolidate around the preferred candidates.

I think it's likely we're going to see some significant shifts in party ideologies and geographic bases in the coming decade. The expansion of urban populations in the Sun Belt - evidenced in Georgia, shrinking Republican margins in Texas, etc. - are going to force the Republicans to find a way to appeal to some new groups. The short-term dominance is going to move Democrats left. I suspect that that's going to push much of the Rust Belt into the Republican party. I wouldn't be surprised if PA, OH, MI, and WI are solid red states by the 2028 election. I wouldn't be surprised if Georgia and the Carolinas are solid blue and Texas is a true swing state. Ideologically I expect the Dems to be more progressive by then and the Republicans to be more socially liberal and more fiscally conservative - a mix that will appeal to those Rust Belters they so desperately need.

But 4 parties? I can't see that. Not under the Constitution we have now.

All valid points Dahs. Solid logic, too. But is solid logic still applicable in today's political "climate"?

There are many folks talking about the coming Republican "battle" and it does seem (to me) to be rather apparent that the moderates and the "crazies" (as I identified the Trump/TP faction earlier) can NOT co-exist in any meaningful National party.

I tend to agree that a WHOLE lot has to change for four Parties to co-exist for any decent period of time.
Maybe I should just speculate about 3 parties. One Progressive/Dem Party and 2 Parties consisting of the current R's.
That seems more likely to occur by 2024 or 2028 than 4 Parties.
But, the Democratic Party has its own reckoning to come...............sometime.

BTW. Folks claiming Arizona is "purple" have no clue!! Arizona is still very Red, but with a (somewhat) larger blue presence and MANY Independents (a full 1/3rd of the registered electorate!!). 2020 (in Arizona) was ALL about Trump. And things related to trump, like McCain, other crazy R's like Gosar, and Dr Kelli (batshit crazy) Ward, and Andy Biggs.........folks so crazy that they push (otherwise) solid Rep. voters (moderates ++) into voting AGAINST Trump and HIS cronies! (like McSally!) Given a sane and moderate republican, running against a typical Democrat, in AZ, the Republican will still win 99% of the time...........even into 2022 and 2024. The "purple-ness" is an illusion!!