Bill Laimbeer was one of the best defensive big men during his career on a great defensive team. His defensive ratings are in the 30's which is ridiculous. He should be more like 70. Same with Otis Thorpe. Lower overrated players defensive ratings like Larry Nance. There are too many overrated defensive ratings for players known for being average or poor defensive players. I understand it's just a game but you should try to make it as realistic as possible.

Some of the defensive ratings are mind-boggling. My favorite is the '17-'18 Rockets:

72 D - James Harden
37 D - PJ Tucker

Posted by copernicus on 2/10/2022 9:17:00 AM (view original):
Larry Nance who was on the all-defensive team multiple times is overrated and Laimbeer whose defensive repertoire mostly consisted of dirty tricks and hacks was a legend? got it


and yes, the James Harden rating is a joke

Nance was 1st team once and 2nd team twice. He was never a defensive stopper. He was a shot blocker but he was actually pretty soft. He got beat on the boards frequently. He defiantly isn't 100. I can see him getting 70 for being wrongly chosen for the all-defensive team but definitely not any higher.

The game was way more physical when Laimbeer played. He may have been dirty at times but most of the players were during that era. He was one of the better defensive centers in the league during his career and that is a fact. Rating him in the 30's is a disgrace. He was a big part of the Pistons defensive greatness. Rodman, Dumars, and Laimbeer were the best defensive players on the Pistons so the Sim should reflect the same reality.

Thorpe was a great defensive player. When Dream came out of the game Thorpe more than held his own defending the best centers in the league. It baffles me he isn't 100% at center. They rate Thorpe low because Dream's rating is deservingly high but there basically aren't any franchise Sim Leagues so they need to rate the players correctly.

Posted by beloud on 2/10/2022 6:35:00 AM (view original):
Some of the defensive ratings are mind-boggling. My favorite is the '17-'18 Rockets:

72 D - James Harden
37 D - PJ Tucker

It's frustrating that they make some players more valuable, and other players less valuable with ridiculous defensive ratings. They also have PG's 100% at SG that never played SG, and SF's 100% at SG that never played SG. These PG's I'm speaking of didn't have the size or physicality and would never be able to hold their own defensively at SG. These SF's I'm speaking of didn't have the ball handling skills or quickness defensively to play SG.. If they are going to make players 100% at a position they didn't play, or were defensively incompetent of playing their defensive rating should be lower at that position even if they are 100%. There are way too many position discrepancies in the Sim. Too many players that should be 100% at other positions, and too many players that shouldn't be 100% at other positions.

"The people who covered the game and made the all NBA squad decisions don't know anything I, an anonymous internet man, am the real expert..."

is so 2006

Posted by copernicus on 2/12/2022 1:09:00 PM (view original):
"The people who covered the game and made the all NBA squad decisions don't know anything I, an anonymous internet man, am the real expert..."

is so 2006

Wilt, Jabbar, Dream, Shaq, Duncan, Robinson, Ewing, Parish, McHale, Moses, Barkley, Malone, Gilmore, Bellamy, Daugherty, Hayes, Howard, Russell, McAdoo, Jokic, Walton, Reed, Lanier, Thurmond, Cowens, Mourning, Garnett, and Davis to name a few would completely dominate Nance if he defended them and yet Nance has a 100 defensive rating against them in the Sim lol. These players are a complete mis-match for Nance but he is considered a defensive stopper versus these great players in the Sim which is a joke! Nance wouldn't even be assigned to defend these guys in a real NBA game or he would foul out in the 1st quarter and that is a fact. To take it one step further to prove my point, if Laimbeer and Nance played on the same team in a real NBA game and went up against one of these dominant big men Laimbeer would be the one defending them and Nance would be defending another weaker offensive player and that is another fact! Laimbeer went up against some of these greats and did a lot better than many other big men in the league did so sometimes when you look at things logically you see the flaws that exist. Nance would realistically be a defensive rating in the 30's against these great big men!

what a weird random list of many not at all similar dudes, most of whom were centers (I mean you realize Nance was a forward, right?) followed by several spurious and unsupported claims - doubling down is also so very 2006

Posted by copernicus on 2/19/2022 5:36:00 PM (view original):
what a weird random list of many not at all similar dudes, most of whom were centers (I mean you realize Nance was a forward, right?) followed by several spurious and unsupported claims - doubling down is also so very 2006

He was mostly a PF/C with Phoenix and SF/PF with Cleveland. 7 seasons he is 100% at center. He is 99 or 98 the rest of his seasons so his defensive rating at center is way too high. Unsupported claims? Are you suggesting that you would have Nance man up against Shaq, Dream, Robinson, etc. over Laimbeer as an NBA coach? Don't even suggest that please. Just because a player is listed at PF doesn't mean they will defend the player listed as PF on the other team. Magic was a PG but mostly defended SF's or PF's because he wasn't quick enough to defend most PG's. My claims are legit. Nance was soft and wasn't a great man defender and got handled on the boards as a PF/C quite often. He is way overrated in the Sim that's all I'm sayin. There are too many overrated players in the Sim and then there are players like Jordan that are underrated. He should be 100% at SF every season. He should probably be 100% at PG along with Pippen considering all the PG.s at 100% that never played SG. They just need to tweak some things to make it more realistic. They just have way too many players that never played positions that are at 100% when other players should be at 100% but aren't. Im out..

My claims are legit.

my goodness...


huh,

I just wonder who you think you are talking to - and I do not mean that in any kind of self-declamatory way (I'm nobody) - literally, I am wondering as you sit down to type these screeds who in your mind you are addressing - is there an audience? is there judging? what do you get if you win?

I used to be like you - people on the internet are always so wrong about Wilt - they made a GIF of me as a stick figure battering my head against a keyboard until there was just blood and bits...

Brother free yourself from this silliness

(also pro-tip: making that kind of claim on this kind of stuff is, let's say, louche)

Posted by copernicus on 2/19/2022 7:57:00 PM (view original):

My claims are legit.

my goodness...


huh,

I just wonder who you think you are talking to - and I do not mean that in any kind of self-declamatory way (I'm nobody) - literally, I am wondering as you sit down to type these screeds who in your mind you are addressing - is there an audience? is there judging? what do you get if you win?

I used to be like you - people on the internet are always so wrong about Wilt - they made a GIF of me as a stick figure battering my head against a keyboard until there was just blood and bits...

Brother free yourself from this silliness

(also pro-tip: making that kind of claim on this kind of stuff is, let's say, louche)

I don't know you and I am not judging you but I enjoy talking basketball and I'm glad you have responded back to me. I grew up watching the NBA basically when Magic and Bird came along. It was a great league back then but they ruined it. I'm hoping that changes would be made to improve this game to make it more realistic and better.

The 1st thing they need to do is have 10 team, 12 team, and 16 team leagues. It doesn't make sense they haven't already addressed this and made it happen. It should be a pretty easy change that would bring in way more money for them, and keep people from quitting WhatIfSports. So many people begged for this change for years with no response and have disappeared because of this. Ignoring customers shows you don't care. New ownership needs to show they care and make this happen right now!

OK then

let's go

FUN FACT: the BAD BOYS in 1989 (first title) had a pace rating of 25th out of 25 at 95.5 (SLOWDOWN & THUG) - guess who that more or less matches- the 05-06 Phoenix "7 seconds or less" D'Antoni Suns who were #1 with a bullet in pace for the season, #1 out of 30 - nobody understands the 80s - so much faster (60s too)

that is one of my favorite stats: the slowest slamminest nastiest f-ers in 1989 were faster up and down the court than D'Antoni's Suns in 05-06

you want to talk hoops? let's do it

(also yeah, you are right, Laimbeer shouldn't be a 30 guy, he's like a 60 with fouls, and hey what about the Spider? you forgot the Spider (who no one will ever use in WIS and maybe that is more to your point but most games are won by flipping coins right now anyways))

Anyway there is a cool 80s league you could sign up for going right now and we could chop it up

What is the deal with the '83 Celtics? Bird isn't 100 at SF, DJ isn't 100 at PG once again but is at SF SMH, Cornbread is 100 at SG which is pitiful but not PF. These are the kind of errors that are unacceptable. I know I'm not the only one that finds these errors unacceptable. DJ should be 100 at PG his whole career! Michael Cooper should be 100 at SF his whole career! Remember Cooper locking up on Bird? Cooper was without question one of the greatest defensive players of all time!

The Lakers closed out games with this lineup for years.

PG. Magic
SG. Scott
SF. Cooper
PF. Worthy
C. Jabbar

I think they do things positionally based on a set of factors that includes both H/W and stats - there may be some wash against bballref or 82 games? but I don't think either could help if you go too far back

I'm a Lakers fan and had the pleasure of yelling COOOOP! more than a few times at the Fabulous Forum - he's up for the hall! - yeah I am pretty sure Larry has said Coop was his toughest defender ever somewhere

Posted by copernicus on 2/20/2022 3:44:00 PM (view original):
I think they do things positionally based on a set of factors that includes both H/W and stats - there may be some wash against bballref or 82 games? but I don't think either could help if you go too far back

I'm a Lakers fan and had the pleasure of yelling COOOOP! more than a few times at the Fabulous Forum - he's up for the hall! - yeah I am pretty sure Larry has said Coop was his toughest defender ever somewhere

I would say COOP, Rodman, and Pippen defended Bird best. Show Time was fun to watch. Magic was the Show and Worthy or Coop were usually the finishers on the break. Kareem's Hook Shot was a thing of beauty. What a great team to be a fan of.

I grew up in Michigan so I was obviously a Magic fan but who wasn't lol. The Pistons were my team and Isiah was my favorite player.
He was so tough and clutch. Remember the ankle game? He couldn't miss. It's too bad he is hated by many players. He should have just apologized for his mistakes and tried to make things right.

That phantom foul call on Laimbeer defending Kareem broke my heart.