https://www.whatifsports.com/slb/Boxscore.aspx?gid=44926993&pid=1&pbp=0&tf=10

Leading 1-0 in the 7th. Sparky looks past my 90-100 fatigue bullpen to put my 70 fatigue mop up in as the 1st reliever of the game.

The "mop up only when losing" box was checked, which seems to preclude it outright with its plain language.

What am I missing here?

Inning Available settings?

you didn't have anyone else available to enter the game. either everyone else was below their auto rest or it hadn't reached the inning when they were available.

even with the mop up only when losing box checked, the sim will still go to the mop up when theres no one else available.

it also appears you don't have the use in relief box checked for your starting pitchers, which would have avoided this. i highly recommend checking that unless you are using a two man rotation

Posted by 06gsp on 1/3/2025 7:24:00 PM (view original):
you didn't have anyone else available to enter the game. either everyone else was below their auto rest or it hadn't reached the inning when they were available.

even with the mop up only when losing box checked, the sim will still go to the mop up when theres no one else available.

Only one pitcher set as 8th or later. Most were over their auto rest too.

Any other possibilities?

Posted by 06gsp on 1/3/2025 7:26:00 PM (view original):
it also appears you don't have the use in relief box checked for your starting pitchers, which would have avoided this. i highly recommend checking that unless you are using a two man rotation

I will try that, but I am trying to understand why the mop up was even an option given the availability of normal bullpen options. Much less the first option when I was ahead by 1 run.

Posted by ermocito on 1/3/2025 7:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by 06gsp on 1/3/2025 7:26:00 PM (view original):
it also appears you don't have the use in relief box checked for your starting pitchers, which would have avoided this. i highly recommend checking that unless you are using a two man rotation

I will try that, but I am trying to understand why the mop up was even an option given the availability of normal bullpen options. Much less the first option when I was ahead by 1 run.

i'm sorry, but I just explained what happened. all your relief pitchers were either below their auto rest or the game hadn't reached their inning available yet. your mopup was not below his auto rest and had reached his inning available, so he was brought in because there was no one else available. that is how the sim resolves these conflicts.

i just took a look and your bullpen is gassed. everyone is tired except Steve Rogers who threw 38 pitches the game before and was fatigued. i'm assuming Brewer is the one guy who's available 8th inning or later? he came in then, and would have come in earlier except you probably had the mop-ups pull setting at 1 so he was left in to take a beating.

i also just double-checked the box score you posted and you were losing 3-2 at the time the mop-up was brought in

Posted by 06gsp on 1/3/2025 8:51:00 PM (view original):

Posted by ermocito on 1/3/2025 7:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by 06gsp on 1/3/2025 7:26:00 PM (view original):
it also appears you don't have the use in relief box checked for your starting pitchers, which would have avoided this. i highly recommend checking that unless you are using a two man rotation

I will try that, but I am trying to understand why the mop up was even an option given the availability of normal bullpen options. Much less the first option when I was ahead by 1 run.

i'm sorry, but I just explained what happened. all your relief pitchers were either below their auto rest or the game hadn't reached their inning available yet. your mopup was not below his auto rest and had reached his inning available, so he was brought in because there was no one else available. that is how the sim resolves these conflicts.

i just took a look and your bullpen is gassed. everyone is tired except Steve Rogers who threw 38 pitches the game before and was fatigued. i'm assuming Brewer is the one guy who's available 8th inning or later? he came in then, and would have come in earlier except you probably had the mop-ups pull setting at 1 so he was left in to take a beating.

Is there a method to see the fatigue scores of pitchers not used in a game during that game? I am looking at the numbers from after the box score was posted.
The numbers I am seeing for the pitchers eligible in the 7th were...90 92 94 96 97 100. Brewer was available before the 8th inning, having it use him as mop up is also odd to me.
Any setting that would save the mop up for games that are not close? I assure resting him completely precludes his use.

There is no way to see what the fatigue numbers were, once the game has been played.

There is no setting that will absolutely reserve the mop up for games that aren't close.

Some things that I do are:
-- Set inning available for every pitcher to "ANY"
-- Check the use-in-relief box for all starting pitchers, as previously mentioned.
-- Lower the autorest setting, especially for your better pitchers. In most cases, I'd rather have a good pitcher come in at 85 than have a mopup come in during a close game

But all of these decisions have tradeoffs, and there is no foolproof method. The key thing to understand though is that the algorithm doesn't make mistakes and is not out to screw you over. If your mopup is brought into a close game in the late innings, it is because no other pitcher was available according to the settings you have entered.

You could (should?) also increase the PC for your starters. You're late in the season; your SPs are starting every game at 100, so they have gas in the tank. Wood can throw 105-110 pitches per start, Blue can throw 120-125. Looks like you have them set for PCs of 95-100.

Once upon a time, I posted a long thread explaining, as best as I could, how the SIM algorithm uses its bullpen. For reasons I won't go into here, I later removed that thread. But here's something I wrote 12 years ago that still holds true:

To summarize three very important points, that get asked about over and over again:

-- Your bullpen settings are interpreted very literally. If you set a guy to be available in the 7th inning with an autorest at 95, then he is not considered available in the 6th inning, or if he has a fatigue of 94. "Close" has no bearing here.
-- If you are surprised by the fact that your mop up was used in a situation that you believe did not warrant it (ie close game, late innings), it is virtually 100% certain that Sparky did NOT make a mistake. The only way this happens is if no other reliever is available.
-- Once a mop up is in the game, if he has a pull setting of 1 and a very high or unlimited pitch count, he is NOT coming out of the game even if the game suddenly gets close. Sparky does not take into account that the game context has changed.

And this from 2015:

If your mop up pitcher was brought into the game in a situation that you do not believe warranted it, it is ALWAYS because no other option was available to him at the time.

Specifically, it is very likely that one of the following was true:
-- Your other pitchers were fatigued below their autorest (this is most often the case...and when you look AFTER the game, the pitcher you think should have been used may now be at 100%, but before the game - which of course you can no longer see - he was at 94, and you set his autorest to 95)
-- Your other rested pitchers were set to come in later in the game (if you set "inning available" = 7 and it's the 6th inning, then you have effectively told Sparky to use the mop up rather than this pitcher)
-- Your other rested pitchers were already used in the game (surprisingly common....user whines "why didn't Sparky use Eckersley" and what do you know, Eckersley was already used earlier in the game)
-- Your pitcher was ejected (yup, it happens)
-- Your pitcher was pinch hit for
-- Your pitcher reached his pitch count
-- You just brought up the pitcher from AAA or from the waiver wire or via trade and forgot to check his relief box
-- Etc, etc, etc.

The point is, there is always a reason, based on YOUR settings. It's not a glitch.

And this from 2016:

In summary, Sparky will manage according to your instructions EXACTLY as you have provided them to him. He is not going to override them, no matter how much you may want him to, or how much you think “common sense” should dictate otherwise, unless he has no other options.

This is the most important point in this entire thread: Sparky’s use of the bullpen is extremely logical. By “logical” I don’t necessarily mean that every decision Sparky makes is exactly the way I would make it, or you would make it, or a real manager would make it. By “logical” I mean that WIS has programmed him with very specific rules about which pitchers to use, in which order of priority, based on inning and score differential AND YOUR SETTINGS. There are – as far as I know – absolutely no documented glitches in this part of the algorithm. There is no line of code that says “bring the mop up in the late innings of a tie game, even if other better (and fully rested) pitchers are available.” So, if you find that in fact Sparky did bring in a mop up in that situation, it’s always because he had no other options available based on the instructions you gave him.

I see this happen in almost every league I am in...someone at some point will complain "SIM brings in mop up in crucial situation instead of guy I think he should have used instead." I even see, surprisingly, very experienced owners ***** about this from time to time. When this happens, it is 100% due to your settings, not due to any glitch in the system, and certainly not due to WIS's algorithm randomly deciding to screw your team over.