07-08 Player Release ** Updated 5/19 ** Topic

jimmac24
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I think the new system greatly inproves the 42 million cap teams. It is going to likely render the 57 million leagues extinct. I think a 54 million cap would be perfect to be honest. I threw together a few 57 million teams and I was so far over in minutes after using some of the highest salaried players out there that I didn't even need to use the last 3 million. The teams were absolutely ridiculous too.
5/20/2008 11:11 AM
doctorevil
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My biggest issue with the SIM is that there is too much math and not enough "basketball" associated with some of this stuff. I have been screaming for Bill Russell to get some defensive justice for years only now to see everyone and his brother have an equal rating of 100. I mean, Al Jefferson just got an 84 rating. What gives. Anyone who has seen him play (and I am a Celtic season ticket holder) can tell you that defense is not his forte. Some of this stuff has to be subjective. If not, just make up fake names for everyone with fake stats to see who can build the team.

My thought is that even if someone is a first team defender, he should not necessarily be in the 90's. Most players should fit the bell curve with most players fitting into the 35-65 range. The only way you can determine if someone really is a liability is not through stats but through first hand knowledge. How about making only the greatest defenders in history (meaning a position player (1G, 1F, 1C) per generation) a 100. Being a 100 should offer exponential value over being say a 95. As Bill Russell didn't just stop his own player but he impacted the play of everyone who went to the basket. This should be worth a decrease in team opponent FG% of some random number in addition to a larger decrease against his personal opponent. Or how about a wildcard that comes up after the play is run which says that if a FG is good if and only if a 100 defender is on the floor then it results in a block or a turnover.
As is, this defensive change is a joke.
5/20/2008 11:23 AM
tracyr
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Russell is overrated
5/20/2008 11:27 AM
glove_20
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Quote: Originally posted by kobemvp24 on 5/20/2008glove you really don't think about anything you say. your logic and thinking is so flawed it is laughable. im not just talking about the D ratings thing. i just mean in general.

Less complex minds won't understand a higher level of thinking. Thats whats the problem with you.
5/20/2008 11:31 AM
glove_20
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Quote: Originally posted by doctorevil on 5/20/2008My biggest issue with the SIM is that there is too much math and not enough "basketball" associated with some of this stuff. I have been screaming for Bill Russell to get some defensive justice for years only now to see everyone and his brother have an equal rating of 100. I mean, Al Jefferson just got an 84 rating. What gives. Anyone who has seen him play (and I am a Celtic season ticket holder) can tell you that defense is not his forte. Some of this stuff has to be subjective. If not, just make up fake names for everyone with fake stats to see who can build the team.

My thought is that even if someone is a first team defender, he should not necessarily be in the 90's. Most players should fit the bell curve with most players fitting into the 35-65 range. The only way you can determine if someone really is a liability is not through stats but through first hand knowledge. How about making only the greatest defenders in history (meaning a position player (1G, 1F, 1C) per generation) a 100. Being a 100 should offer exponential value over being say a 95. As Bill Russell didn't just stop his own player but he impacted the play of everyone who went to the basket. This should be worth a decrease in team opponent FG% of some random number in addition to a larger decrease against his personal opponent. Or how about a wildcard that comes up after the play is run which says that if a FG is good if and only if a 100 defender is on the floor then it results in a block or a turnover.
As is, this defensive change is a joke.


I agree with most of this. Good Post.
5/20/2008 11:32 AM
qistat
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The breakdown of defensive ratings posted above aproximates a uniform distribution (one that is slightly skewed).

I would agree that to better reflect the real world the ratings should approximate a normal distribution. This should be a relatively easy fix. The current ratings could just be standardized (before capping at 100) to a mean of 50 and and a standard deviation of about 15.

This would put about 68% of the ratings between 35 and 65. Onlly 1% of the ratings would be above 95 as that would be about 3 standard deviations above the mean.

There would of course still be individual player issues due to the difficulty in objectively measuring defense but the overall scale would better reflect the true range of ability.

Overall though the changes normalizing the ratings that drive the sim should make for intersting team building strategies.
5/20/2008 11:48 AM
slymonium
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Quote: Originally Posted By glove_20 on 5/20/2008

Quote: Originally posted by kobemvp24 on 5/20/2008
glove you really don't think about anything you say. your logic and thinking is so flawed it is laughable. im not just talking about the D ratings thing. i just mean in general.

Less complex minds won't understand a higher level of thinking. Thats whats the problem with you.
5/20/2008 11:51 AM
jakotay
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He didn't say learning....
5/20/2008 11:53 AM
hurley711
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Quote: Originally Posted By jimmac24 on 5/20/2008I think the new system greatly inproves the 42 million cap teams. It is going to likely render the 57 million leagues extinct. I think a 54 million cap would be perfect to be honest. I threw together a few 57 million teams and I was so far over in minutes after using some of the highest salaried players out there that I didn't even need to use the last 3 million. The teams were absolutely ridiculous too
no one cares what YOU think! YOU SUCK
5/20/2008 11:55 AM
jweb1510
Posts: 460 (0)
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All in all, I love the vast increase in the number of stats provided to us. I love the per 48 minutes search option. I love the fact that salaries dropped, enabling us to make better teams (though $57M caps are about to go the way of the old $72M caps). My only gripe, minor as it is, is what everyone else has said: the stark increase in the number of high-level defenders. I don't purport to be an expert on comparing players' defensive abilities, but I do agree that 100D should be reserved for the elite defenders of all-time. I would rather see a bell-curve distribution than an even distribution, as I think that's more true to life.

I'm sure you guys will take a good look at this in the immediate future. But for now, thank you for the upgrade. It was much needed, and now it's much appreciated!
5/20/2008 12:05 PM
kobemvp24
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Quote: Originally Posted By glove_20 on 5/20/2008
Quote: Originally posted by kobemvp24 on 5/20/2008 glove you really don't think about anything you say. your logic and thinking is so flawed it is laughable. im not just talking about the D ratings thing. i just mean in general.

Less complex minds won't understand a higher level of thinking. Thats whats the problem with you.
so to be enlightend i need to think GP is better than everyone in the history of defense. you say kobe isn't on jordan's level defensively? he is damn close.
5/20/2008 12:35 PM
all3
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Seems the overwhelming majority of owners feel something needs done with the D ratings. Sure would be nice to see Seble comment. Have two new Leagues starting, and I don't want to waste a lot of time if there are going to be revisions (and I would hope there are going to be revisions to the D ratings) .
5/20/2008 1:07 PM
badja
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All Star
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Prospect
I really dig the changes to the draft process. Great job.

The range is just too subjective. I think it should be 86'ed and some kind of player vs. player defense option should be added.

I agree with the "bell curve" school of thought for defense.



5/20/2008 4:07 PM
colonels19
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Quote: Originally Posted By glove_20 on 5/19/2008
Quote: Originally posted by all3 on 5/19/2008 Looks very nice . . . except for the crazy 07-08 Defensive ratings.
If you check, all the D-Ratings, not just for 08, have been highered. Taking the prestige out of having a good D Ratin
Its good and its bad, its helped level the playing field between past players and present as previously, the highest def rated guard prior to 1973 was a Walt Frazier at 93. While they are high and a bit out of line WIS has made it so you're not drafting the same team because of great defense over and over again, thus making their product more replayable.

Like I said, the biggest thing for me here is the huge jump in combination possibilities, its fantastic.
5/20/2008 4:26 PM
usmoo_879
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5/20/2008 4:31 PM
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07-08 Player Release ** Updated 5/19 ** Topic
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