Wisefella is a classless punk Topic

nachopuzzle
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"Smokey, this is not Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."

I couldn't agree more girt, there are very specific TOS. Besides, Wisefella's exit was a blaze of glory precisely because he took the team he owned and used it to break as many rules as possible on his way out the door. I was quite enjoying the spectacle, it is rare you get to watch someone F the system regardless of the consequences.
11/1/2010 6:55 PM
metsmax
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take this in a slightly different direction - what is the fair remedial action by admin?  allow the coach to go on hiatus? put the cut players back on the roster?  more?  less?
11/1/2010 7:21 PM (edited)
ike1024
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Well, it looks like he got WiS' attention, right?

He may not have "punished" them, but he clearly made them aware of his problem, and had direct contact with seble.  Doubt that would have happened with a strongly-worded ticket or boycott.

Seems like he accomplished his mission.
11/1/2010 7:36 PM
nachopuzzle
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Posted by ike1024 on 11/1/2010 7:36:00 PM (view original):
Well, it looks like he got WiS' attention, right?

He may not have "punished" them, but he clearly made them aware of his problem, and had direct contact with seble.  Doubt that would have happened with a strongly-worded ticket or boycott.

Seems like he accomplished his mission.
I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this one. I don't think Wisefella was out to punish the system or intending to accomplishing anything specific, or at least I don't get that vibe from his posts. He went for the noble coup-de-gras, only to find himself exactly where he began. Albeit, the king had to come down off the mountain and beg the lowly serf to return, but he still finds himself in the same position.

This thread has been amazing (by far the best of my tenure), but I would have loved to seen Wisefella bite the bullet and go out with his head held high.
11/1/2010 7:54 PM
isack24
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Posted by nachopuzzle on 11/1/2010 7:54:00 PM (view original):
Posted by ike1024 on 11/1/2010 7:36:00 PM (view original):
Well, it looks like he got WiS' attention, right?

He may not have "punished" them, but he clearly made them aware of his problem, and had direct contact with seble.  Doubt that would have happened with a strongly-worded ticket or boycott.

Seems like he accomplished his mission.
I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this one. I don't think Wisefella was out to punish the system or intending to accomplishing anything specific, or at least I don't get that vibe from his posts. He went for the noble coup-de-gras, only to find himself exactly where he began. Albeit, the king had to come down off the mountain and beg the lowly serf to return, but he still finds himself in the same position.

This thread has been amazing (by far the best of my tenure), but I would have loved to seen Wisefella bite the bullet and go out with his head held high.
Perhaps you're correct, although daalter made that assumption in his initial post, and I was just going with it.

I guess my point is, it seems to have gotten seble' attention, and maybe alerted him to a problem that we all know exists, or at least how big of a problem many of us believe it to be.

If that's the case, then his temper tantrum actually accomplished something.  I don't condone immature, emotional outbursts, but in our current society, sometimes you have to make waves any way you can before "the king" pays attention.
11/1/2010 8:44 PM
nachopuzzle
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Ya, its rare that you really get to watch someone rage against the machine, and even more so in those instances when the machine actually takes heed. Wisefella is definitely the champion of the day, and I give him a tip of my cap.

  
11/1/2010 9:23 PM
ekswimmer
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Posted by angmar on 10/31/2010 8:26:00 PM (view original):
Posted by a_in_the_b on 10/31/2010 5:48:00 PM (view original):
Posted by emy1013 on 10/31/2010 2:17:00 PM (view original):
Posted by a_in_the_b on 10/31/2010 1:05:00 PM (view original):
Posted by emy1013 on 10/31/2010 12:27:00 PM (view original):
Posted by daalter on 10/31/2010 12:17:00 PM (view original):
emy, have you seen that show "What Would You Do?" It stages fake situations that call for innocent bystanders to step up and say something/help out/etc. Some people do stand up, and others just ignore it and go about their normal day.

Has your place of employment convinced you to pick up a "Stop Snitching" mentality?
I work in a prison Daalter, snitching can be VERY dangerous.  I've seen, firsthand, throats cut because of it.  So, no, I don't snitch.  Ever.

And before any of you "lawyerly"-types try to call me out for an early post about reporting the situation to CS, notice I said someone, not me.  I've got NO problem with wisefella's actions, whatsoever.

Trey said it best a few posts earlier.  If one bad team causes him to miss the NT, his team probably wasn't that good anyway.  It'll all work itself out gentlemen, be patient (that seems to be the mantra around here anyway, "Give it a few seasons to cycle through......").

And did you miss THIS line?:

 

"This is actually TONS of fun and I am thinking of getting even more seasons"


 

How many times are you gonna post this?  And do you actually believe EVERYTHING you hear?

Once he's done it once, why wouldn't he stoop to doing it again?

 

Once you've proven your lack of ethics, well. . .
 

Kinda like you vehemently denying that arssanguinus was an alias of yours, only to get called on it and have to admit that, well, yeah, it is actually.............fricking hypocrite.

Kind of in late to this, but I think his goal of drawing attention to the fact that you can win a National Championship and 2 years later lose out on that job is really ridiculous. That's like Roy Williams getting turned down by UCLA right now.  It was utterly stupid.

I just picked this post, but there were a ton attacking this guy. He paid, he can do what he wants. I'm not about to let any of you tell me how to use something I've paid for. If it violates rules, then WIS can remove him from the team and fix it. Until then, it's his (paid for) team to coach as he pleases.

A-inthe_B, you said earlier that this is different from not recruiting. No its not. The end result is the same, a team of walkons going winless, all this does is speed up the process, and actually allows someone to rebuild the team sooner. It probably saved a season or 2 from the examples Angmar/Emy gave. And I think this whole lack of ethics thing is a little ridiculous. So you've never done something that probably wasn't the best way to approach the situation? Sounds like everyone has a lack of ethics in that case.

Plus, why did daalter even start this thing? This is definitely not the first time Ive seen a team that (well in this case a team that would have) had almost all walkons. If the guys in that conference want to say something, that's fine. Or if you disagree with it, send a ticket (which you may have), no need to try to destroy him. You want him to take the high road? What about yourself?
11/2/2010 12:43 AM
a_in_the_b
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The terms of service are part of a contract.  He decided that only WIS had to live up to their part of the contract.  Its a pretty simple equation and that he got Seble to look at him, or all the other points given in this are in the end irrelevant.   He had a good point about whether he should have been hired.  However his reaction was unambiguously not the right reaction.   Results matter.  Intent matters.  There is a difference between losing control of a car and plowing through a crowd(A ghostship), say, and taking the wheel, turning it deliberately towards the crowd, and stepping on the gas.  Even if the amount of people injured is exactly the same.  This is really my final post on this thread because, really, the situation is resolved, I have a long day at work ahead of me, and I don't want to go slogging back through endless pages.

So consider that my definitive position and. . .

finis.

11/2/2010 6:26 AM
ike1024
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"There is a difference between losing control of a car and plowing through a crowd(A ghostship), say, and taking the wheel, turning it deliberately towards the crowd, and stepping on the gas."

That's a terrible analogy.  "Losing control" is unintentional.  Abandoning your team is not.  You know what you're doing when you abandon your team.

For the rest of it, well, that's just a difference of opinion.
11/2/2010 8:30 AM
milkamania
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I'm not sure why we think Wisefella accomplished anything.  So far all I've seen is Seble's post saying Wisefella wants to stay on and try to recover the team, and that he let him with a warning.  Not sure how that equates to "the machine/king" paying attention.  No mention was made of them addressing his concerns or doing anything to rectify his initial complaints.  So far it seems like Wisefella just backed down as being "forced" to coach Syracuse is hardly the screwing it was made out to be.  Unless of course the developer chat Thursday is directly related to all of this, in which case I like my crow medium rare. 
11/2/2010 9:26 AM
hughesjr
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Posted by ike1024 on 11/2/2010 8:30:00 AM (view original):
"There is a difference between losing control of a car and plowing through a crowd(A ghostship), say, and taking the wheel, turning it deliberately towards the crowd, and stepping on the gas."

That's a terrible analogy.  "Losing control" is unintentional.  Abandoning your team is not.  You know what you're doing when you abandon your team.

For the rest of it, well, that's just a difference of opinion.
I am not sure exactly what a_in_the_b meant, but I would say that since WIS requires you to maintain 1 extra season to do things like Redshirt, and schedule next seasons games, etc, ... that if one decides to abruptly  quit a world, there is possibly a ghostship season going to happen (unless you contact WIS and change the team to SIMAI).   In that case, the ghostship would be unintentional.

I would also say that seble did contact the user in question and he said he wanted to keep the team and fix the issue.  If he really does want to do that then I'm fine with it.  People make mistakes and sometimes do things on the spur of the moment that they did not fully think through.  If that is what happened here, then good on wisefella for doing the right thing.  Hopefully he will turn the team around.


11/2/2010 9:31 AM
isack24
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"I am not sure exactly what a_in_the_b meant, but I would say that since WIS requires you to maintain 1 extra season to do things like Redshirt, and schedule next seasons games, etc, ... that if one decides to abruptly  quit a world, there is possibly a ghostship season going to happen (unless you contact WIS and change the team to SIMAI).   In that case, the ghostship would be unintentional."

Look, the analogy is irrelevant, but how is that unintentional?  You intend to quit, and you know the consequences of quitting - no one running the team and it ultimately becomes significantly worse than with most human coaches.  There's nothing unintentional about it unless you physically cannot get to a computer.

"I would also say that seble did contact the user in question and he said he wanted to keep the team and fix the issue.  If he really does want to do that then I'm fine with it.  People make mistakes and sometimes do things on the spur of the moment that they did not fully think through.  If that is what happened here, then good on wisefella for doing the right thing.  Hopefully he will turn the team around."

I agree with this.

"I'm not sure why we think Wisefella accomplished anything."

He got seble's attention.  That's more than anyone not named daalter seems to be able to do.

11/2/2010 10:05 AM
antonsirius
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Why are people assuming a ghost ship situation means someone chose to quit the game?

Or, right, because it fits their preconceived worldview. Never mind, carry on.
11/2/2010 10:24 AM
isack24
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Posted by antonsirius on 11/2/2010 10:24:00 AM (view original):
Why are people assuming a ghost ship situation means someone chose to quit the game?

Or, right, because it fits their preconceived worldview. Never mind, carry on.

How many options are there?

Dead?  Physically unable?  Chose to quit?

I know it's tough to read small words from up on your high horse, but if you did, you would see that I very clearly left open the possibility that one of the first two things could have happened when I said, "[t]here's nothing unintentional about it unless you physically cannot get to a computer."

I think it's clear we're only talking about circumstances where someone voluntarily quit, and we would all agree that none of this applies in other circumstances.

I also have no doubt you didn't actually read my entire post, which is ironic coming from someone who is soapboxing about "preconceived worldview[s]."

11/2/2010 10:35 AM
fd343ny
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so as of now the status is that a bunch of players were dumped, those who were smart or lucky enough got the benefit of killer transfer players and the roster at Cuse has been made very weak on purpose?  and the remedial action taken by WIS was?
11/3/2010 9:33 AM
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