Posted by MikeT23 on 1/2/2017 2:59:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MonsterTurtl on 1/2/2017 2:48:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/2/2017 6:54:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MonsterTurtl on 1/2/2017 12:08:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/1/2017 10:18:00 PM (view original):
Now, after your "You MUST......" statement, benis has shown you several examples of users who've won without superior ATH/DEF. And, after every one, you've said "Yeah, but....."

Did you seriously just copy this from an earlier post?

You still haven't responded to the data I put in.

Well, if you need me to spell it out.....benis provided data that contradicts what you put together.

This is a dick way to respond to this.

I said what Benis put together was outliers, look at what I put together and that proves that.

You provided research, benis provided research. They contradict one another. I don't know that they're "outliers" as much as they are just a few users using a different strategy. If you read the forums, the consensus is "Look for ATH/SPD/DEF and run a Fastbreak/press O/D." So, if a n00b is reading the forums, sees a handful of guys with great success saying that, it's probably what he'll do.

They don't contradict each other, it proved my point that it is rare.

Posted by Benis on 1/2/2017 3:02:00 PM (view original):
This is basically why I said I agreed with TJ in his post saying he disagreed that you needed high ath/def to be successful.

There are a few reasons why I think you can't generalize it in this way and I'll do my best to explain it

1) You don't want to completely ignore low ath/def players if they can help you win. Yes, don't go get a bunch of guys with 20 def but maybe 1 or 2 could really help your team. By saying "you need high ath/def" you may encourage people to completely ignore these types of players who can be very useful

2) I think you need to be more specific on what ratings you want to have based upon your offense and defense. For M2M, you want to focus more on Def than if you were in press. In press you can go with lower def and higher speed for example. Myers is successful with his high ath/def because of the O/D he plays and the style that he plays it.

3) I agree that Ath/def are the two most important attributes. However, how much are you giving up to get it? If you get a whole bunch of guys who are athletic defenders, then who is going to score? Who is going to rebound? Who is going to pass? Basically I'm trying to make the point that you shouldn't mortgage the farm to buy in on ath/def at the expense of other things. Just like being able to build a successful team with low ath/def, it takes an experienced owner who is savvy enough to know how much of the other attributes to give up to get high ath/def. They don't go all in on those two ratings typically (myers being the exception).

1) I agree, I have three players on my RUN team that have below 50 Def, one will be over 50 when he is done growing, one was a recruiting mistake that I had to pick up to get my 12 players due to 3.0 sucking, and the other two have high BH/P/SPD and one has high PE who I bring off the bench. I don't start them because their DEF sucks, but they can contribute. I usually have 1 or two players like that. They can be useful, but only in small amounts generally.

2) I agree

3) High Ath can make up for a lot, including scoring and rebounding, but not passing. But it is important to emphasize to new players that they are critical, or else they will go on recruiting low ATH/DEF without doing it properly. Mike wasn't doing it right, so me trying to help him out tried to convey to him how important those two stay catagories are. I was only trying to help. He decided to be a dick about it all and argue every little point.

Posted by MonsterTurtl on 1/2/2017 4:45:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/2/2017 2:59:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MonsterTurtl on 1/2/2017 2:48:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/2/2017 6:54:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MonsterTurtl on 1/2/2017 12:08:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/1/2017 10:18:00 PM (view original):
Now, after your "You MUST......" statement, benis has shown you several examples of users who've won without superior ATH/DEF. And, after every one, you've said "Yeah, but....."

Did you seriously just copy this from an earlier post?

You still haven't responded to the data I put in.

Well, if you need me to spell it out.....benis provided data that contradicts what you put together.

This is a dick way to respond to this.

I said what Benis put together was outliers, look at what I put together and that proves that.

You provided research, benis provided research. They contradict one another. I don't know that they're "outliers" as much as they are just a few users using a different strategy. If you read the forums, the consensus is "Look for ATH/SPD/DEF and run a Fastbreak/press O/D." So, if a n00b is reading the forums, sees a handful of guys with great success saying that, it's probably what he'll do.

They don't contradict each other, it proved my point that it is rare.

Not nearly as rare as you first claimed(which was "never"). Or even nearly as rare as you claimed the 2nd time(1%). That's a contradiction. Of course, you might be contradicting yourself.

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/2/2017 5:03:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MonsterTurtl on 1/2/2017 4:45:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/2/2017 2:59:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MonsterTurtl on 1/2/2017 2:48:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/2/2017 6:54:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MonsterTurtl on 1/2/2017 12:08:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/1/2017 10:18:00 PM (view original):
Now, after your "You MUST......" statement, benis has shown you several examples of users who've won without superior ATH/DEF. And, after every one, you've said "Yeah, but....."

Did you seriously just copy this from an earlier post?

You still haven't responded to the data I put in.

Well, if you need me to spell it out.....benis provided data that contradicts what you put together.

This is a dick way to respond to this.

I said what Benis put together was outliers, look at what I put together and that proves that.

You provided research, benis provided research. They contradict one another. I don't know that they're "outliers" as much as they are just a few users using a different strategy. If you read the forums, the consensus is "Look for ATH/SPD/DEF and run a Fastbreak/press O/D." So, if a n00b is reading the forums, sees a handful of guys with great success saying that, it's probably what he'll do.

They don't contradict each other, it proved my point that it is rare.

Not nearly as rare as you first claimed(which was "never"). Or even nearly as rare as you claimed the 2nd time(1%). That's a contradiction. Of course, you might be contradicting yourself.

As I have said REPETITIVELY I did not know of any top teams that succeeded when I claimed that. Then I said 99% which still very well may be true, I don't have the time or patience to do the research on that, but based on what I found it was 96% which is a 3% difference, sue me.

You really do nit pick at every small detail and ignore the main points.

Are you a second account of Coach Ward? Arguing with you is just like arguing with him.

You didn't know because you didn't bother to check. 99% and 96% are just guesses. For all either of us know, 20% of the tourney teams could be weak in ATH/DEF. Or 10%. Or 30%. But only one of us is making definitive statements on the matter. It ain't this guy.

No, I do not bother to check 10 worlds for data, it would take hours, not to mention I am only in 3 worlds. Because I do not check does not mean I am not right. You keep requesting enormous tasks of people, and then when they don't do it because who would, you claim that you are right.

If your so convinced on this matter, put your money where your mouth is and do it.

The only time I "request" anything from anyone is when they make absolute statements that turn out to be false. One of us did that. It ain't this guy.

So, if you want to make absolute statements, be prepared to be called on them. If you choose not to back them up with actual data, so be it. But, if someone says "Yeah, that's wrong. Here are some examples" just accept that you were wrong. I'm not sure what you're arguing about at this point.

I did back it up with data, you just refuse to count it. As I have MULTIPLE times, I admit that I was wrong about all good teams having high ATH/DEF, I had not seen any before. Then I changed it to the large majority, which is absolutely correct, 100% of the teams in the elite 8 of Wooden are above 55 in ATH and Def with most of them being above 60. That's 8 high ATH/Def teams out of 8, that's not a coincidence.

"I'm not sure what you're arguing about at this point."

I don't care anymore, take what I was trying to tell you or not. I would love to see you attempt to win a championship with a low Ath/Def team. As I hear kids say these days "go ahead, you won't , no balls".

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/3/2017 7:12:00 PM (view original):
"I'm not sure what you're arguing about at this point."

People who don't care any more stop arguing when someone says this not once but twice.

Are you trying to convince me that I actually do care about this argument LOL. ????????<---- laughing with tears emojis that won't show up)

You're putting in a lot of posts for something you don't care about.

I post a lot. But I bet I haven't posted in half of the threads on the front page. Know why? I don't care about those topics.

There was a keyword there "anymore" it means that I cared about the topic before but I do not now. But of course you choose to ignore that because you ignore anything that doesn't work with your agenda.This is ridiculous, how are you seriously trying to convince me that I do care about this.

If you tweak the verbiage a bit, I think this would make for an awesome modern-day Abbott and Costello sketch.