Allen/Smith regular season Topic

mullycj
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Wouldnt it make more sense to believe they are pressuring and trapping the opponent after a made basket until the opponent crosses mid-court and then drop into the base defense?

Thats the type of defense I see most often.
5/26/2010 1:19 PM
colonels19
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Quote: Originally Posted By seble on 5/26/2010You can trap and pressure out to halfcourt while playing a zone. In common basketball terminology, a "half-court" press means that you begin defending when the offense crosses mid court. I've never seen it described otherwise outside of this game.

The current options in HD honestly don't make a lot of sense to me in my knowledge of the game. In my mind, every team should have to choose M2M or some type of zone to run as a base defense. Then on top of that there should be some different ways to press. I actually agree with this sentiment...you could probably also make the argument for fastbreak offense as well, less something like Paul Westhead's "system".

5/26/2010 1:19 PM
seble
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Quote: Originally posted by mullycj on 5/26/2010Wouldnt it make more sense to believe they are pressuring and trapping the opponent after a made basket until the opponent crosses mid-court and then drop into the base defense?Thats the type of defense I see most often.
That's the definition of a full-court press.
5/26/2010 1:27 PM
seble
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The problem seems to be the fact that in HD, full-court press supposedly extends all over the court. The truth is that, in real life, every team that presses falls back into a M2M or zone, unless the other team scores before they have a chance.
5/26/2010 1:28 PM
reinsel
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okay, but then what to do with the options that we have now?

Halfcourt press seems to give you extra TOs without the extra fouls and opp FG%.
5/26/2010 1:33 PM
tarzan
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I agree with seble, the hcp begins in the frontcourt. Its really a half court trap. The full court press means just that. trap for the entire length of the court. Your team needs to be extremly well conditioned and have the ability to bring in fresh subs example pitino's kentucky teams to press the entire length of the court.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Pitino
5/26/2010 1:34 PM
seble
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It should allow for more open shots and should generate more fouls than a M2M or zone. Like the full-court press though, how effective it is depends on the players.
5/26/2010 1:34 PM
shagnew13
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In my experience in real life, a Full court means you are basically playing man to man on your opponent, until he pass the ball then you go and trap to where the ball goes, and this happens the full length of the court regardless if the opponents cross half court.

Half court press means the samething but once your opponent crosses half court you fall back into your base defense whether that be m2m, or zone.

Half court trap is when you fall back to your base defense and trap the opponents once the cross half court.

5/26/2010 1:35 PM
tarzan
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A full-court press is a basketball term that refers to a defensive style in which the defense applies man-to-man or zone defense to pressure the offensive team the entire length of the court before and after the inbound pass. Some presses attempt to deny the initial inbounds pass and trap ball handlers either in the backcourt or at midcourt. Defenses not employing a full-court press generally allow the offensive team to get halfway down the court (a half-court press) or near the basket before applying strong defensive pressure.

A full-court press takes a great deal of effort, but can be an effective tactic. Often when teams are behind late in a game, they will apply full-court pressure as a means of attempting to produce turnovers as well as tire opponents. Certain teams, such as those coached by Rick Pitino, are known for applying full-court pressure during most of the game. Presses are especially effective against teams with poor ballhandlers, shallow benches (since players become more fatigued attacking a press), or teams with slow, deliberate offenses (since taking the ball up the court can waste a substantial portion of the shot clock). Once a press is broken, however, the defensive team is vulnerable to a potential fast break or open three-point opportunity since defensive players may be caught behind the play.

Effective press breaks employ quick passing more often than dribbling to advance the ball up the floor. Short, quick passes are less prone to turnovers than either long passes or dribbling. Another effective way to break a man-to-man press is to pass to the center. Most presses keep a "last man back" (usually the center) whose job is to disrupt a potential fast break resulting from the press; this may leave the offensive center unguarded and able to receive a pass near midcourt.

The term first came about around 1950. While Arkansas's coach Nolan Richardson called his version full court pressure "40 minutes of Hell". VCU's current coach Shaka Smart calls his form of full court pressure "Wreaking Havoc" or "Havoc Ball".
5/26/2010 1:36 PM
reinsel
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Ok, so a halfcourt trap is a defense. But its usually done out of a base set, and you never fall back into something else. You run a 1-3-1 trap or something.

It is its own thing, not a combination of 2 other defenses.

How is a halfcourt trap a halfcourt/man or a halfcourt/zone defense?
5/26/2010 1:36 PM
sd2416
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Full court press is pressure on the ball the length of the entire court. Hence, the name full court.

Half court press is where you pressure the ball after it crosses half court.

Here is the glossary off of basketball terms, from nba.com through the wnba site. If that makes sense.

http://www.wnba.com/about_us/glossary.html

Half-court press: A defensive tactic by which a team's players guard their opponents closely after they cross the midcourt line.

Full-court press: A defensive tactic by which a team's players guard their opponents closely for the length of the court.
5/26/2010 1:43 PM
vandydave
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Quote: Originally Posted By seble on 5/26/2010You can trap and pressure out to halfcourt while playing a zone. In common basketball terminology, a "half-court" press means that you begin defending when the offense crosses mid court. I've never seen it described otherwise outside of this game.

The current options in HD honestly don't make a lot of sense to me in my knowledge of the game. In my mind, every team should have to choose M2M or some type of zone to run as a base defense. Then on top of that there should be some different ways to press.

woohoo, where were you 4 years ago??
5/26/2010 1:46 PM
scottyj74
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Quote: Originally Posted By sd2416 on 5/26/2010Full court press is pressure on the ball the length of the entire court. Hence, the name full court.

Half court press is where you pressure the ball after it crosses half court.

Here is the glossary off of basketball terms, from nba.com through the wnba site. If that makes sense.

http://www.wnba.com/about_us/glossary.html

Half-court press: A defensive tactic by which a team's players guard their opponents closely after they cross the midcourt line.

Full-court press: A defensive tactic by which a team's players guard their opponents closely for the length of the court.


Good Stuff! Unfortunately its off the WNBA website so I just can't take it seriously.
5/26/2010 1:48 PM
reinsel
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I am not arguing your definitions.

I see the issue is that HD treats the halfcourt trap as a combination of zone and fullcourt press IQs or man and fullcourt press IQs.

This is not very accurate, since to get your team good at a halfcourt trap you wouldn't practice fullcourt pressing 20 minutes and then practice a 2-3 zone for 20 minutes....you'd practice a 1-3-1 trap or something.

And what is the difference between a man trap and a zone trap then? All traps kind of have to become zones don't they? I am really only familiar with playing a 1-3-1 trap, never did it out of a man to man set as a philosophy.
5/26/2010 1:57 PM
seble
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Quote: Originally posted by reinsel on 5/26/2010I am not arguing your definitions.I see the issue is that HD treats the halfcourt trap as a combination of zone and fullcourt press IQs or man and fullcourt press IQs.This is not very accurate, since to get your team good at a halfcourt trap you wouldn't practice fullcourt pressing 20 minutes and then practice a 2-3 zone for 20 minutes....you'd practice a 1-3-1 trap or something.  And what is the difference between a man trap and a zone trap then?  All traps kind of have to become zones don't they?  I am really only familiar with playing a 1-3-1 trap, never did it out of a man to man set as a philosophy.

That's a valid point...another reason I don't like the way the defenses are designated in the game. Generally a half-court press is really it's own defense, not a combination. The 1-3-1 being a common example.

I would probably list the base defenses as:

- M2M
- 2-3 Zone
- 3-2 Zone
- 1-3-1 Zone

Then a full-court press could be added on top of this with various options.

There may be some other base sets that I'm not thinking of. You could also add in some more gimmicky options like a Box-and-1 or Triangle-and-2.
5/26/2010 2:03 PM
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