Posted by jiml60 on 6/21/2011 3:58:00 PM (view original):

If we are going to lump off the cuff coments and Speechs by the KKK as the same thing we are going to have problems addressing race in America.

If you, and people who think like you, keep passing off obvious racial remarks as "off the cuff" or "throw away lines", then there is no hope for resolving the race issue in America.

I think it is backwards.

I think if we start addressing the real issues that impact blacks in America and ignore the small stuff we can change all this in a generation.

If we keep telling white people that we are hateful, genocidal racists you never solve the problem.

Why do you tell white people that they are hateful, genocidal racists? That's an awful thing to say. Unless you know a lot of hateful, genocidal, racist white people.

It is the basic philosophy of the left.

http://notmytribe.com/2009/white-european-genocide-by-poverty-war-and-disease-87634.html
http://www.enotes.com/genocide-encyclopedia/native-americans
http://www.mayanastro.freeservers.com/herero1.html

The problem is that if every issue dealing with blacks gets tossed in the same pile as racist genocide than people will get defensive.

It really drives me nuts when you call me a racist. I think it is unfair. It prevents me from dealing with anything you say fairly.

No one said a word about genocide, it's no wonder you can't understand why some phrases will offend certain groups, you just hear what you want to hear then steer the conversation in that direction.

You're never honest yet you want everyone here to have an honest conversation with you.

I've never called you a racist but if you can't see why "chugging a 40" or comparing Obama to a monkey is not racist, you have no business pulling that "Let's have an honest discussion about race" card - because you are the problem.

My point was that in the big picture. White people are told that blacks are are being help down by systemic racism and they get defensive. They know that in their hearts they are not racist and do not do anything to harm blacks.

Another big picture issue is comments about a group can be stereotypical without being racist. On the flip side they can in fact be racist. I am not sure why but I accept that blacks eating watermelon is racist. I would never use that in any conversation. Just because it is. It is very specific to the black race. I dont think you can say the same thing about monkeys. I have seen people portrayed as monkeys just as a metaphor for stupid. A football announcer got it trouble for saying "Look at that little monkey go". Had nothing to do with race.

As a Polish person I understand that stereotypes can be harmful. Polish came to mean stupid. Have been told it had something to do with our accents sounding stupid to native english speakers and the fact that we were more blue collar that some other groups.

I realize that chugging a 40 was meant to be a reference to blacks. I just cannot see it as a harmful reference.

I am not sure where this is going.

I know I do not hate blacks, or Obama. I believe I could pass a polygraph.

Was Rand Paul being a racist when he explained the problems he had with the voting rights act? 

Your point is meaningless. We were not having a big picture discussion. We were having a discussion about a specific phrase said by a specific person. No one (but you) was talking about "white people" in general.

"Chugging 40s" is a phrase deliberately intended to bring to mind negative stereotypes about drunks in the ghetto. Ask your 100 imaginary people in a mall what sort of person they think of when they hear the phrase "chugging 40s", as opposed to, say, "chugging cold ones".

As for the monkey thing, it's been explained to you repeatedly why it's racist, and how there is a long and inglorious history of black people being compared to monkeys as a way to dehumanize them. If you choose to be willfully ignorant of that history, even after it's been explained to you, then you have no one to blame but yourself for anyone thinking you sympathize with racists.

FYI, Howard Cosell got in trouble and eventually quit MNF precisely because he called a black athlete a "little monkey". He was able to demonstrate to most people's satisfaction that he hadn't meant it in a racist way, that in fact he's called a white receiver a "little monkey" too some years prior, but ignorance is no excuse. He should have known better.

Just to clarify...

Even if someone is not aware of the history and use a monkey reference about a black man with no racial intent  at all it is still a racist statement?

The short, not entirely accurate answer: yes.

The long answer: I'll provide you with an anecdote from my childhood and let you figure out whether it sheds some light on the subject.

After I started talking I played a lot of language games, just fooling around with sounds and syllables and such - playing with my new toy, as it were.

One night we were at my grandparents' place, and I was sitting at my mother's feet while she was reading. I started making up words with a consonant-vowel-consonant pattern, starting right at the beginning of the alphabet. Bab, bac (soft 'c'), bad, baf, bag... every time I found a word I knew I giggled and then moved on to the next combination.

My mother paid no attention at all as I worked my way through the b's, c's, and d's. The fa-'s were fine (fab, fac, fad, faf...) as were the fe-'s, fi-'s, and fo-'s.

When I got to the fu-'s it finally dawned on my mom where this game was headed, and she started trying to get me to stop. I didn't stop. Fub, fuc (pronounced fuss), fud, fuf, fug, fuh, fuj (pronounced like fudge)... then I got to fuk, and my mother smacked me. Hard. I had no clue why.

So let me ask you this, swamp: did I swear? Did little me say his first obscenity at the age of three? And was my mother justified in smacking me?

Great analogy to fit your needs. Actually it is a great story.

The two points I am trying to make is people should get the benfit of the doubt and actual racism needs to be confronted.

If someone makes racist remarks over and over and is unapologetic you can say whatever you want about them. I will back you up 100%.

If someone makes an off the cuff remark and you want him punished, and the person happens to be on the opposite side politically than you I think your motives can logically be called into question.

The whole "Tea Party" are racists and "Republican dog whistes" is getting old for me. I know a lot of these people and they are not racists.

Who have I ever called for to be punished?

When have I ever called the Tea Party racists?

Two more lies, because you'd rather talk to the imaginary anton in your head than the real me.

By the way, you never answered my questions. Did I say my first swear word at the age of three, and was my mother justified in smacking me?

You did not say a swear word. You made a sound that sounded like a swear word. No intent.

You mother was trying to reinforce in your mind that these sounds have a meaning.

Posted by antonsirius on 6/23/2011 8:11:00 AM (view original):
Who have I ever called for to be punished?

When have I ever called the Tea Party racists?

Two more lies, because you'd rather talk to the imaginary anton in your head than the real me.

By the way, you never answered my questions. Did I say my first swear word at the age of three, and was my mother justified in smacking me?

And I am calling BS on the 1st line. How can you define someone as a hate fulled racists and then claim you dont want him punished.

Branding him a Racist is punishment!

For once in your life stand up and defend what you said instead of running away from it!

Who did I define as a "hate fulled racist"? Even without the typo it's yet another lie.

Respond to what I actually say, swamp, not what the imaginary anton in your head says.

Posted by antonsirius on 6/23/2011 9:35:00 PM (view original):
Who did I define as a "hate fulled racist"? Even without the typo it's yet another lie.

Respond to what I actually say, swamp, not what the imaginary anton in your head says.

<<<Eric Bolling's "Obama's chugging 40s in Ireland while tornadoes ravage Missouri" Tweet was just the latest in a very, very long line of racially-motivated smears, slams and hate-filled attacks from Fox personalities.>>>

Recognize your own quote.

Now you are going to explain how you never actually said the phrase "Hate filled Racist", in that order so I am a liar.

Again stand up for what you say.

Yes, I am. If I believe someone to be a racist, I will say so.

If instead I believe someone to be winking and pandering to racists in an attempt to advance their career as a pundit, I will say so. Oh wait, that's exactly what I did.

Respond to what I actually say, swamp, not what the imaginary anton in your head says.