All hyperbole aside, when you don't actively try to improve your ML team, you are showing at least an indifference to winning.

"If I win, I win.  If I don't, I don't.  I'm not going to sweat it."

And I think we can all agree that while not everyone considers this to be tanking, it's at least a distant cousin, as indifference to winning (to me at least) is indicative of the awareness that there's an upside to losing, being draft position.

I don't even think you have to actively improve your team unless you look at it and say "Wow.  This team sucks.  The previous three owners have really screwed this one up!"    At that point, you make a decision.   Make some moves and improve your 52 WIN TEAM or say "Screw it.  I'm not going to spend 6m on 3-4 cheap FA and hopefully improve this 52 WIN TEAM".   It's when you know your team can't be competitive and do nothing about it is when you've accepted tanking as a reasonable action.

Posted by MikeT23 on 9/20/2010 11:17:00 AM (view original):
And, again, the point is "How will that group of people make their judgement?"    Will it be fair?  Will they add personalities into the equation?  Did one have a bad day?  Did any of them find a bag of money?  

Try as you might, once you have "judgements" being made by owners in the world, you blurr the lines between fair/unfair. 

Those exact same judgements go into the creation of a rule.  How will those people make that rule?  Will it be fair?  Will they add personalities into the equation?  Did one have a bad day?  Did any of them find a bag of money?

Keeping the subjectivity after the rule helps to balance out these injustices (and others) that you think dominate owners' decisions.

No.  A rule means 5 = 5.  Not 5 = 5 unless that dude is an *** then it becomes a 3.

Think of it like a speeding ticket.  Sometimes the cop is a dick and writes you up for 58 in a 50.   Sometimes he says "Slow it down a little" and sends you on your way.  You guys with your "Panel of 5" are playing cop.

I'm not sure you got my meaning.  A win floor rule or a speeding limit isn't the same as a 5=5 rule, or a rule of gravity or something like that.   The cop is doing the same that that the guy who decided on "50"....except he's taking into account situation.  

Ever think of why cops play cop?  They have their reasons and that's built into the process.  You're right, we were playing cop....why would I want a set of words to do that?

So you and your Panel of 5 don't get to play cop and write one guy a ticket while telling the next guy to have a nice day.

Ever think of why cops play cop?

hint: it's not because they want to vent after a morning of taking too many mulligans on the golf course.

How do you expect ADMIN to consistently back up your enforcement of rules in your world if you are not going to apply those rules consistently yourself?

In my experience, most cops are egomaniacs on power trips.    While there are some who legitimately want to uphold the law, even those guys will give the buxom blonde a warning while writing you a ticket for the same infraction. 

Nonetheless, I'm sure cops aren't told to "Interpret the law and enforce as you see fit."    Which is what your Panel of Five is doing.

Posted by MikeT23 on 9/21/2010 8:17:00 AM (view original):
In my experience, most cops are egomaniacs on power trips.    While there are some who legitimately want to uphold the law, even those guys will give the buxom blonde a warning while writing you a ticket for the same infraction. 

Nonetheless, I'm sure cops aren't told to "Interpret the law and enforce as you see fit."    Which is what your Panel of Five is doing.

Our prison system would be even more overcrowded than it is now if cops didn't interpret the law as they see fit. This happens all of the time.

I'm less concerned with overcrowded prisons than I am criminals on the street.   Let the cops do their job(enforce the law), let the judges do their job(interpret the law and decide the penalty) and let the politicians do their job(build the goddam prisons if necessary).

Do you really think the beat cop should decide which laws to enforce?

Posted by MikeT23 on 9/21/2010 8:32:00 AM (view original):
I'm less concerned with overcrowded prisons than I am criminals on the street.   Let the cops do their job(enforce the law), let the judges do their job(interpret the law and decide the penalty) and let the politicians do their job(build the goddam prisons if necessary).

Do you really think the beat cop should decide which laws to enforce?

Yes. I'd be pretty ****** if my tax dollars were going toward a beat cop enforcing the jaywalking law.

Posted by MikeT23 on 9/21/2010 8:17:00 AM (view original):
In my experience, most cops are egomaniacs on power trips.    While there are some who legitimately want to uphold the law, even those guys will give the buxom blonde a warning while writing you a ticket for the same infraction. 

Nonetheless, I'm sure cops aren't told to "Interpret the law and enforce as you see fit."    Which is what your Panel of Five is doing.

I'm sure that they do, and are expected to.  

I think the biggest issue here is communication from admin.  If they said, "Your rules must be specific and consistent, with no exceptions, and we reserve the right to overrule any decision you make." then at least everyone would know moving forward.  But that's not what they said.  When presented with the set of rules and an appeals process involving a panel of five folks that would vote on each individual, I assume they presented no objections.  Perhaps some WifS guidelines for setting and enforcing rules wouldn't be a bad idea.  And for what it's worth, admin's take on "treating each situation individually when it comes to removing an owner" is interpreting the law and enforcing it as they see fit.

In thinking about the Rickey situation, it's a shame there isn't a better way to introduce new folks to the game.  Too often some folks are looking to improve their own team in spite of the health of the world and the health of the noob's team or their HBD experience.  As one owner puts it, "I didn't want to be babied when I came into the game, so I'm not going to baby anyone else."

anyways, it's getting a bit silly now, Mike.  Even tecwrg is back posting his banal shite.  I think we can see where we differ....and it works well, because our different worlds have different rule & enforcements.  The more variety there is overcomes any inferior rule based governing.