Posted by ettaexpress on 2/19/2014 11:13:00 AM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 2/19/2014 10:19:00 AM (view original):

Posted by ettaexpress on 2/19/2014 1:28:00 AM (view original):
You're telling me that Bellamy at his peak will struggle to be NT quality at SF?

I still think you all are severely underrating my recruiting class. Gotta remember that they've been artificially shackled.

you totally missed the point. some of your guys aren't bad, but none of them are the kind of guys you'd want to lead a NT bound team. however, that wasn't the thrust of my post at all! for a first class, you did fine, but obviously there is room for improvement, yes? the point was simple - there are some not-obvious aspects of recruiting (such as dropdowns and pulldowns) that really open up the kind of players available to you. your prestige is a limiter, but its also possible recruiting mechanics are limiting you... they might be causing you to not consider all the players available to you - you know, like they do for every other coach in the game who wasn't brought in to HD by a mentor who explained these things ahead of time. 

I'm aware of the option. I'm not completely clear on whether it's feasible given what my budget constraints figure to be. 

I've been told it takes like 10 scouting trips to pull someone down. In that time basically anyone that is interested in the player can come in. I put out feelers to several guys but eventually someone else came in that probably would have taken the player anyway. That seems like a high-risk thing to do when the #1 thing you need is players that can play. If you could play 5 or 6 guys like a number of teams do IRL in college, then it would be a higher reward.

it is feasible, and its a critical component of success at d3 or d2. i'd continue to work on it. a phone call is only 10 dollars, thats not bad. a local pulldown for about 1600 or semi local for 2500 is certainly not out of the realm of possibility, either. learn to sign the low competition guys for as little as possible, that will help.

Posted by ettaexpress on 2/19/2014 11:15:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Trentonjoe on 2/19/2014 10:23:00 AM (view original):

Posted by ettaexpress on 2/19/2014 1:28:00 AM (view original):
You're telling me that Bellamy at his peak will struggle to be NT quality at SF?

I still think you all are severely underrating my recruiting class. Gotta remember that they've been artificially shackled.

A 30 speed, 55 DEF SF is a defensive liability on a NT team.

He should be able to score effeciently but he's a - on defense.

Doesn't seem like it based on what my conference looks like. Maybe it would be if I actually got into the NT, but that would be a nice problem to have.

your conference is really weak. it seems like you get defensive about the players you recruit... which is just crazy to me. frankly in your conference, you can make the NT without NT talent because you can win a CT and sneak in. or, you can pull a great record without actually having a good team, and get in. its harder to make it from a top conference where guaranteed losses abound. the part of this that makes no sense is people here are talking about NT talent, and you continuously go on to reference "what your conference looks like", which is so far from being close to the same context, its really bewildering.

so, none of that conference stuff or the fact that you can make it with less talent, suggests these guys are NT material. look at the 10 or so seeds - thats NT material. you miss the auto bids who aren't really NT quality by looking up a bit, 12 might be enough. it shouldnt take a rocket scientist to look at those team and recognize some of the guys you recruited are going to struggle. some can compete, but, you still have work to do on the recruiting front (like everyone else who started this game). no reason to be defensive about that... none at all. unless you think you are some sort of god (or savant) who is automatically amazing at everything ;)

hey whoa, lets not bring rocket scientists into this.....

Posted by ettaexpress on 2/19/2014 11:13:00 AM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 2/19/2014 10:19:00 AM (view original):

Posted by ettaexpress on 2/19/2014 1:28:00 AM (view original):
You're telling me that Bellamy at his peak will struggle to be NT quality at SF?

I still think you all are severely underrating my recruiting class. Gotta remember that they've been artificially shackled.

you totally missed the point. some of your guys aren't bad, but none of them are the kind of guys you'd want to lead a NT bound team. however, that wasn't the thrust of my post at all! for a first class, you did fine, but obviously there is room for improvement, yes? the point was simple - there are some not-obvious aspects of recruiting (such as dropdowns and pulldowns) that really open up the kind of players available to you. your prestige is a limiter, but its also possible recruiting mechanics are limiting you... they might be causing you to not consider all the players available to you - you know, like they do for every other coach in the game who wasn't brought in to HD by a mentor who explained these things ahead of time. 

I'm aware of the option. I'm not completely clear on whether it's feasible given what my budget constraints figure to be. 

I've been told it takes like 10 scouting trips to pull someone down. In that time basically anyone that is interested in the player can come in. I put out feelers to several guys but eventually someone else came in that probably would have taken the player anyway. That seems like a high-risk thing to do when the #1 thing you need is players that can play. If you could play 5 or 6 guys like a number of teams do IRL in college, then it would be a higher reward.

You can call it 'high risk' etta, but its something just about everyone on this thread talking to you does routinely. Its possible. Keep an eye out for bargains you can get really cheaply near you and save that money to use on
Pulldowns - or dropdowns. Spend a phinecall early on someone and sometimes later on they drop down on their own if you are patient. Honest, Etta; we aren't sugesting something to you that you can't do.

Posted by gillispie1 on 2/19/2014 11:24:00 AM (view original):

Posted by ettaexpress on 2/19/2014 11:15:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Trentonjoe on 2/19/2014 10:23:00 AM (view original):

Posted by ettaexpress on 2/19/2014 1:28:00 AM (view original):
You're telling me that Bellamy at his peak will struggle to be NT quality at SF?

I still think you all are severely underrating my recruiting class. Gotta remember that they've been artificially shackled.

A 30 speed, 55 DEF SF is a defensive liability on a NT team.

He should be able to score effeciently but he's a - on defense.

Doesn't seem like it based on what my conference looks like. Maybe it would be if I actually got into the NT, but that would be a nice problem to have.

your conference is really weak. it seems like you get defensive about the players you recruit... which is just crazy to me. frankly in your conference, you can make the NT without NT talent because you can win a CT and sneak in. or, you can pull a great record without actually having a good team, and get in. its harder to make it from a top conference where guaranteed losses abound. the part of this that makes no sense is people here are talking about NT talent, and you continuously go on to reference "what your conference looks like", which is so far from being close to the same context, its really bewildering.

so, none of that conference stuff or the fact that you can make it with less talent, suggests these guys are NT material. look at the 10 or so seeds - thats NT material. you miss the auto bids who aren't really NT quality by looking up a bit, 12 might be enough. it shouldnt take a rocket scientist to look at those team and recognize some of the guys you recruited are going to struggle. some can compete, but, you still have work to do on the recruiting front (like everyone else who started this game). no reason to be defensive about that... none at all. unless you think you are some sort of god (or savant) who is automatically amazing at everything ;)

Didn't John Carroll lose to the national champs in the NT last year? That doesn't seem like a terribly easy road. Really weak? Here we go again with the loaded and undefined terms. Until my team tanked, the league was in the top 10 rankings. So if there's a team to blame for the conference's weakness, it's probably mine. When we were 8-11, the conference was ranked I think 10th.

I don't really care what "NT talent" is because I'm primarily competing in my conference. I figure if I'm up there with John Carroll in my conference, that's the point at which I'd be in the NT conversation whether you all think I have "NT talent" or not. I can think of several teams that will be in the NCAA tournament this year that you all probably wouldn't think have "NT talent" and in another league might not (Virginia comes to mind first, put them in the Pac-12 or Big 12 and I think they don't have nearly as many wins). 

So that's why I look at the league. That and you can do it pretty easy with the tools the sim gives you, as opposed to looking up every "bubble" team or something.

That's faulty logic.

Posted by a_in_the_b on 2/19/2014 12:39:00 PM (view original):

Posted by ettaexpress on 2/19/2014 11:13:00 AM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 2/19/2014 10:19:00 AM (view original):

Posted by ettaexpress on 2/19/2014 1:28:00 AM (view original):
You're telling me that Bellamy at his peak will struggle to be NT quality at SF?

I still think you all are severely underrating my recruiting class. Gotta remember that they've been artificially shackled.

you totally missed the point. some of your guys aren't bad, but none of them are the kind of guys you'd want to lead a NT bound team. however, that wasn't the thrust of my post at all! for a first class, you did fine, but obviously there is room for improvement, yes? the point was simple - there are some not-obvious aspects of recruiting (such as dropdowns and pulldowns) that really open up the kind of players available to you. your prestige is a limiter, but its also possible recruiting mechanics are limiting you... they might be causing you to not consider all the players available to you - you know, like they do for every other coach in the game who wasn't brought in to HD by a mentor who explained these things ahead of time. 

I'm aware of the option. I'm not completely clear on whether it's feasible given what my budget constraints figure to be. 

I've been told it takes like 10 scouting trips to pull someone down. In that time basically anyone that is interested in the player can come in. I put out feelers to several guys but eventually someone else came in that probably would have taken the player anyway. That seems like a high-risk thing to do when the #1 thing you need is players that can play. If you could play 5 or 6 guys like a number of teams do IRL in college, then it would be a higher reward.

You can call it 'high risk' etta, but its something just about everyone on this thread talking to you does routinely. Its possible. Keep an eye out for bargains you can get really cheaply near you and save that money to use on
Pulldowns - or dropdowns. Spend a phinecall early on someone and sometimes later on they drop down on their own if you are patient. Honest, Etta; we aren't sugesting something to you that you can't do.

Almost everyone on this thread has an established team with a higher prestige, and doesn't really have to worry about being an easy target. Add in that next year we have 2 scholarships worth of money thanks to the moronic way budgeting is done in this game, and the risk goes up further.

I feel like I got 3 pretty good players and one guy that may not last but was an upgrade over what I had "keeping an eye out for bargains" like you say. As has been written elsewhere, to get the very best you have to win battles and that's something I can't really do right now. Even for regional players, there's going to be competition because there are a lot of schools in OH and PA. Having local players for my school is going to be pretty unusual, and even more unusual that I would be the local favorite. 

It would be nice if more recruits had a defined local/not local preference. A few do (one of the guys I signed did), but seemingly not nearly enough.

Posted by Trentonjoe on 2/19/2014 3:11:00 PM (view original):
That's faulty logic.

Oh. Ok. Your convincing analysis has swayed me. Fair enough, my goal is to win the NT next year and if I don't do it then I've failed. 

Better?

You don't really listen, broski.   Do you really care what I think?

There's a big difference between:

1. League Average talent for the 10th rated conference.
2. NT level talent.
3. NC level talent.

oh, 10th best? i thought previously you said 10th worst. my bad. thats not so bad. well, depends on the world, but generally its not terrible at least. also, saying someone lost to the national champs in the NT is kind of meaningless. lost to them what, in the 1st round, in the title game? that is all the difference in the world (and then some). the easy road was getting to the NT in a bad conference, but see the part where i thought u said 10th worst in a prior post... maybe its not so easy. really if you have only 1-2 NT capable teams in conference, it does make it easier, but not as easy as when you have 0 (which could be the case with 10th worst - 10th best, not so much).

also, note that your perception of prestige is off. in d3, prestige is primarily important in WHO you can recruit, not how much credit you get for the money you spend. you can go toe to toe with an a+ school, assuming you have the ability to even talk to the player (which is a big if). they have a slight advantage, in terms of effort. really, the advantage comes from them being a successful coach and you being new, not from prestige. so im not saying go pick fights with the cream of the crop, but the reason is NOT because of your prestige advantage. i would battle up vs d2 schools in d3 all the time and almost never lost, and they have 5k per guy instead of 3k, which dwarfs the prestige difference. good coaches who pick up c prestige d3 teams generally do not walk away from a prestige players because of a prestige, its for other things - money, distance, etc. not saying prestige is totally meaningless (although some will say that), but, its definitely not the importance u make it out to be.

I'm guessing it ended up middle of the pack, but the old OAC poked its head into the top 10 for a while there. Still, not the worst by any stretch, but not the University.

I don't know round John Carroll lost in, but I thought it was pretty deep, maybe the title game. But really, in theory it doesn't matter what round you lose in. Maybe you were the second best team in the tournament but you just had a couple of hard luck losses, got drawn into the wrong bracket and met the champion earlier. That's happened before probably at all levels, and is more common in D3 where the championships are regionalized (I don't know if that's the case in HD or not). 

Seems to me like you're saying the same thing a different way. You don't walk away because of prestige but because of money...well how do you get more money...being in tournaments, which gives you higher prestige...same difference as far as someone in my position is concerned.

And then there's the difference in the players you can "see", which is another very stupid thing about HD. And I'll just leave that where it is.

Money comes from your conference winning postseason games.

Prestige comes predominantly from your team winning postseason games.

money comes from scholarships first and conference success second...