Beta Testing Topic

cthomas22255
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I'll agree with mrpolo on that. A new coach is going to input an invalid number of practice minutes, etc, things a vet just wouldn't do. New people who don't know what they're doing break things, no matter what the thing is. The value of a vet is that he/she can say "Compared to what we used to have..."
11/9/2009 3:14 PM
mlatsko1
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Quote: Originally Posted By jskenner on 11/09/2009mlatsko, might it be possible that HD has more to lose from vets (with multiple longterm teams), vets who are "waiting around to see how the changes shake out before deciding to stay" than to gain from newer customers? I'm not sure, myself. But I don't think the beta-test experience-level distribution for this is necessarily typical. It may be that a worst-case scenario is that WIS listens too little to vets' complaints/suggestions/solutions re: the new release, while concentrating on the new player experience, and many, many vets finally stay "take this game and shove it." :
There is no question in my mind that they stand to lose the most from vets. This engine release has to be a huge success. Retention of the veteran coaches will lead to new users sticking around.
11/9/2009 3:16 PM
zhawks
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Quote: Originally Posted By mlatsko1 on 11/09/2009
Quote: Originally Posted By jskenner on 11/09/2009
mlatsko, might it be possible that HD has more to lose from vets (with multiple longterm teams), vets who are "waiting around to see how the changes shake out before deciding to stay" than to gain from newer customers? I'm not sure, myself. But I don't think the beta-test experience-level distribution for this is necessarily typical. It may be that a worst-case scenario is that WIS listens too little to vets' complaints/suggestions/solutions re: the new release, while concentrating on the new player experience, and many, many vets finally stay "take this game and shove it." :)
There is no question in my mind that they stand to lose the most from vets. This engine release has to be a huge success. Retention of the veteran coaches will lead to new users sticking around.
I too agree with that statement.
11/9/2009 3:19 PM
mrpolo09
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11/9/2009 3:22 PM
zhawks
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Again, I will say speak for yourself. You are also assuming that all vets will treat the beta the exact same way they do the real game, which isn't exactly what you want in the Beta test, you want to push it to its extreme and test what you usually do.

While you make vaild points polo I still see them as a vast generalization.
11/9/2009 3:29 PM
wronoj
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11/9/2009 4:21 PM
zhawks
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Again, I have never stated that newer coaches should not be included.
11/9/2009 4:29 PM
furry_nipps
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I'd hate to do it. WIS will not work with users to really test. They won't give you the power to simulate a full season fast with a center at PG, a PG at center, or all things even trying a double team with a combined def rating of 2 vrs double team with a combined def rating of 100. I don't think WIS will force coaches to battle and compare distance, recruiting efforts, close to home/fav school things and see if anything needs to be tweaked. It would take a lot for WIS, and coaches who want to really pick the brain of HD and SHARE the information. I just don't see it working out that way, and will turn out to be a ugly waste of time. 100% there will be multiple bugs found within the first week so why even 'test' it?
11/9/2009 6:08 PM
jskenner
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Wow, furry. Now I'm depressed.
11/9/2009 6:41 PM
furry_nipps
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Well, hopefully the changes that everyone have been asking for (rankings, seedings, durability) all work out the way we want them too because those were always such a big problem. Glad to see the things that are perfect (EE, def rating, FT shooting, recruiting distances etc, prestige being perfect and so on) are not being touched. Hopefully we get the laughs and can read the convos.


User - I just lost this crap player to EE, but player x (way better) stays.

WIS - Its that way to balance the game.


User - My A+ Duke team can't beat D- Sac state for a recruit in Utah who wants to play far from home.


WIS - Its that way to balance the game.


User- My players keep getting minor injuries almost every game.

WIS- It happens in real life.




User - Okay, so you won't 'fix' anything thats wrong. Whats the point of this?


WIS- Just to make it look like we listen. Thanks for spending your time testing bugs. We will be correcting some things over the next few months before fulling rolling it out (just saying that to make it look like we are listening and making changes that you want.)
11/9/2009 6:58 PM
hackerhog
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I hate to go against the grain here, but...

Someone else said it here already. Experienced users have tunnel vision and make terrible beta testers. Whereas newbies do the unexpected and make excellent beta testers. Your best QA people don't know everything, but enough to be dangerous. That, right there, is your ideal beta tester.
11/9/2009 7:47 PM
jenningss
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I remember testing a civil war simulation. Some idiot newbie decided the best way to clear out entrenched troops at the top of the hill was to charge uphill in the open. No veteran would have tried such a stupid thing but it worked! Mainly because the sim wouldn't allow the defenders a reaction time type thingy... they had to wait their turn.
11/9/2009 9:39 PM
emy1013
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Quote: Originally Posted By furry_nipps on 11/09/2009Well, hopefully the changes that everyone have been asking for (rankings, seedings, durability) all work out the way we want them too because those were always such a big problem. Glad to see the things that are perfect (EE, def rating, FT shooting, recruiting distances etc, prestige being perfect and so on) are not being touched. Hopefully we get the laughs and can read the convos.


User - I just lost this crap player to EE, but player x (way better) stays.

WIS - Its that way to balance the game.


User - My A+ Duke team can't beat D- Sac state for a recruit in Utah who wants to play far from home.


WIS - Its that way to balance the game.


User- My players keep getting minor injuries almost every game.

WIS- It happens in real life.




User - Okay, so you won't 'fix' anything thats wrong. Whats the point of this?


WIS- Just to make it look like we listen. Thanks for spending your time testing bugs. We will be correcting some things over the next few months before fulling rolling it out (just saying that to make it look like we are listening and making changes that you want.


I hope you're not right, but given WIS' track record, I'm afraid you're gonna be right on the money.
11/9/2009 9:59 PM
aporter
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Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 11/09/2009
Why on earth is your school in World Knight needed?

I am also confused as to why experiance is not a main factor. How can WIS honestly think a new player could be a good Beta tester?

They ask for total number of HD seasons.
11/9/2009 10:01 PM
coach_billyg
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Quote: Originally posted by hackerhog on 11/09/2009I hate to go against the grain here, but...

Someone else said it here already. Experienced users have tunnel vision and make terrible beta testers. Whereas newbies do the unexpected and make excellent beta testers. Your best QA people don't know everything, but enough to be dangerous. That, right there, is your ideal beta tester.

this is pretty far off the mark. from a generic software development standpoint, sure, new users may try something convoluted that an experienced user may implicitly avoid. and yes, they have their place in the beta testing - primarily to weed out what is not as obvious or straight forward as you intended. but the most valued beta testers, by far, are the power users. who else can tell you if your product has all the functionality it needs? if you covered a complex but necessary scenario? if the most relevant information is displayed in the most practical locations?

in HD terms, for some examples, a new player can't look at the pool of recruits and tell you if the programmers went too far or not far enough. a new user can't tell you if the change to calculate ranking after each game went wrong and changed the ranking formulas, or if they are just in their natural state of ridiculousness. the flaws in the engine seble claims to seek to correct are deeply rooted conceptual flaws, not the "whoops i forgot to check if the user put a special character in the integer box" kind. what seble needs are power users who will call him on conceptual design flaws, not just simple bugs.
11/9/2009 10:11 PM
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