Declining an option--player re-signs Topic

spudpicker
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They do it that way on purpose it appears.

http://whatifsports.com/knowledgebase/KB_Article_Details.aspx?kbid=654

11/23/2009 3:27 PM
silentpadna
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Don't forget the other issue with your potential Type A:

A good owner who is signing FA's will try to sign multiple Type A's in the same season. If you're counting on a #1 and a sandwich, you could be deeply disappointed. If you're willing to let him go, you better really be willing. I let a guy go last year season as a Type A (who would not have really made difference for me anyway this season), who netted me a 3rd round pick.
11/23/2009 3:28 PM
spudpicker
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When letting go of Type A's, I always assume I'm getting back a sandwich pick and the other will be garbage. Anything better is a bonus.
11/23/2009 3:31 PM
iain
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Quote: Originally Posted By spudpicker on 11/23/2009
They do it that way on purpose it appears.

http://whatifsports.com/knowledgebase/KB_Article_Details.aspx?kbid=654



I believe that is because it is easier to program. The offering/declining of arb. might be a bit much for new users.....?
11/23/2009 3:51 PM
spudpicker
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Arb is a completely separate issue than declining a team option means no compensation. And yes, I agree they did arb the way they did to make it easier for new users.

It just sucks that dealing with new users (or lazy ones) also gets in the way of properly handling 6-year minor league free agents to help spread freely available talent around better.
11/23/2009 6:39 PM
kingbraden
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Quote: Originally Posted By spudpicker on 11/23/2009
Has anyone suggested to WIS that declining a team/mutual option shouldn't prevent the team from getting compensation picks?

See here where "Team declined option" still nets compensation in real life:

http://www.examiner.com/x-28775-MLB-Draft-Examiner~y2009m11d10-Elias-releases-list-of-Type-A-and-Type-B-free-agents



I think it is quite rare for a player to have his option year bought out and to be offered arbitration. On your list is Dye is listed as a Type A, but I would be shocked if Dye is offered arbitration and so the Sox will get no draft pics.
11/23/2009 6:53 PM
gjello10
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Quote: Originally Posted By spudpicker on 11/23/2009
When letting go of Type A's, I always assume I'm getting back a sandwich pick and the other will be garbage. Anything better is a bonus.

This ought to depend on where your natural pick is, because when a team signs multiple Type-As, the comp picks are ordered by the draft order. I just took over a crappy rebuilding project, and let a Type A go. Since I had the #2 pick, and the #1 pick didn't have any Type A guys, and since my guy was a RP (and bad teams don't generally give up draft picks for closers, since they don't have a lot of late leads), I felt I was 85% likely to get a true #1 + the top sandwich pick (which I did, #s 23 and 34), and I knew there was no chance I would end up with worse than a top-half 2nd rounder. If you're natural pick is low, you may very well end up with that 3rd rounder or worse.
11/23/2009 7:14 PM
spudpicker
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"because when a team signs multiple Type-As, the comp picks are ordered by the draft order."

I looked last season and I actually couldn't find any logic to how Type A compensation was ordered.
11/23/2009 7:27 PM
kingbraden
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Quote: Originally Posted By spudpicker on 11/23/2009
"because when a team signs multiple Type-As, the comp picks are ordered by the draft order."

I looked last season and I actually couldn't find any logic to how Type A compensation was ordered.

The players are ranked, not just grouped into type A or type B. If a team signs multiple players the draft pick given up is deteremined by player rank (there is a limit to the number of type A and B players a team can sign).
11/23/2009 8:01 PM
iain
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Quote: Originally Posted By spudpicker on 11/23/2009

Arb is a completely separate issue than declining a team option means no compensation. And yes, I agree they did arb the way they did to make it easier for new users.

It just sucks that dealing with new users (or lazy ones) also gets in the way of properly handling 6-year minor league free agents to help spread freely available talent around better.

I don't mind that they've dumbed it down a bit. I'm not sure I'd have the time to properly handle more than one team if they did it the "real" way, since the guys who make 7 figures to do it only handle one team at a time.
11/23/2009 9:05 PM
spudpicker
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"If a team signs multiple players the draft pick given up is deteremined by player rank (there is a limit to the number of type A and B players a team can sign)."

I'm pretty sure that's not the case. I've looked and player ranking has had nothing to do with order in which compensation is assigned. Neither is the win/loss from the previous season.

And I'd be interested to hear what the limit is... I think I signed 5 or 6 Type A's last season.
11/23/2009 10:32 PM
kingbraden
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Quote: Originally Posted By spudpicker on 11/23/2009
"If a team signs multiple players the draft pick given up is deteremined by player rank (there is a limit to the number of type A and B players a team can sign)."

I'm pretty sure that's not the case. I've looked and player ranking has had nothing to do with order in which compensation is assigned. Neither is the win/loss from the previous season.

And I'd be interested to hear what the limit is... I think I signed 5 or 6 Type A's last season.



Sorry, I was talking about MLB not HBD. HBD does not have the limit that MLB does. MLBs limit is based on the number of type A and B free agents available and varies by year. But I think you are typically allowed 3 A or Bs from other teams. You can also resign your own players or players to replace those lost as type A or B.

This year MLB had a special rule to allow 8 signings.
11/23/2009 11:43 PM
gjello10
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But when a team signs multiple Type A's, the comp picks are awarded based on draft order. If a team gives up its #s 1-3 to sign guys away from teams with the 12th, 18th, and 30th picks, then the team owning pick #12 gets the #1, the team owning pick #18 gets the #2, and the team owning pick #30 gets the #3. Sandwich picks are also ordered this way. Everyone who has a Type A sandwich pick has their 1st Type A pick ordered by the regular draft order, then everyone who gets a 2nd Type A Sandwich pick has those put in order after the 1st set of sandwich picks, etc, until their are no more Type A sandwich picks. Then come the Type B picks, which are ordered the same way, by draft order and in rounds (i.e. everybody makes their 1st pick before anyone makes their second).

Thus, in my situation, I was assured (assuming my guy got signed) of getting the 34th pick (the very 1st sandwich pick) + the top pick surrendered by the signing team, either in the bottom 16 of round 1 or the top 16 of round 2, because I was the top drafting team with a Type A FA.

So keep your draft position in mind when deciding whether to let your Type A guy go.
11/24/2009 8:33 AM
spudpicker
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"Everyone who has a Type A sandwich pick has their 1st Type A pick ordered by the regular draft order, then everyone who gets a 2nd Type A Sandwich pick has those put in order after the 1st set of sandwich picks"

Perhaps this is why I couldn't figure out the order. I'll be sure to pay attention to that in the future.
11/24/2009 10:43 AM
gjello10
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I should add that the picks are listed in order of when the player was signed during ST, but then re-ordered when the draft prospect list drops.
11/24/2009 11:22 AM
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