Quote: Originally Posted By a_in_the_b on 1/27/2010ANd on the bench thing, I wasn't drawing any conclusions, I was just pointing out that that was where the disparity was located.

I appreciate that, but that make little sense to me. I have four guys with higher reb (all with decent or better ath) who have better reb than his best.

Just statistically the team that is defensive rebounding gets a larger percentage of the rebounds off misses than the team that is offensively rebounding. YOur percentage was a little low, but if you got just two more orebounds, you would have had a respectable percentage and still been outrebounded. Its hard to outrebound someone in a half where you miss almost twice as many shots as they do, It can happen, but. .

I mean seriously, will someone take a look:

Here are the guys who played 4/5:

My guys (ath/reb): 66/94, 58/73, 74/80, 41/75.

His guys (ath/reb): 63/63, 34/60, 65/37, 21/70.

I mean, I absolutely blow him out down low. And he played 2-3 (+3/+5).

And he outrebounded me by 9? Honestly, I think that's outrageous the more I look at it.

I see what you're saying a, I just tink with my huge advantage, the fact that he was playing 2-3 (maybe the least defense conducive to rebounding), and +3/+5 on top of it, I really think I should have been able to dominate the offensive glass. At least in my experience.

Maybe that's where it is, though, maybe I'm exaggerating the rebounding. I'm still annoyed that I beat the zone to take mid-range shots and was never fouled, despite my ath advantage down low.

Put it this way, say you had what was a really good offensive rebounding game and of those 18 opportunities you got back 40% of them. That woudl be 7 rebounds for you to 11 for him. And say he got only twenty percent of his own misses back on the ten he missed - that woudl equate to two rebounds for him and 8 foer you. Even in that scenario, you would STILL only barely outrebound him by 15 - 13, and that would be with extraordinary offensive rebounding.

That 18 - 10 missed shot advantage is very hard to overcome in rebounding. Add to it that your guards still took most of your shots, so you aren't getting the standard tip ins and put back off of misses from your big men. . . for example, it looks like three of his orebounds were Flor putting back in his own misses.

I disgaree that 40% offensive rebounding is extraordinary.

Granted this was the best rebounding team in the country, but I was well over 50% two seasons in a row.

http://www.whatifsports.com/hd/TeamProfile/Stats.aspx?tid=7266

It's certainly not extraordinary against a 2-3 (+3) when you have a huge reb advantage.

"it looks like three of his orebounds were Flor putting back in his own misses."

Right, and I guess I'm wondering how he had a much better offensive rebounding percentage against a much better rebounding team with much worse rebounding conditions - don't you think that proves my point?

I see your problem: You are comparing offensive rebounds to offensive rebounds> WHich is not the proper comparison> Y Our offensive rebounds combine with his defensive rebounds, and Vice Versa. Defensive rebounds for him are YOUR misses that he rebounded. Offensive rebounds for you are also YOUR misses that you rebounded. In that case you had a 48% offensive rebounding percentage your opponent's Defensive rebounds were: 24.4 - 6.5 = 17.9 - meaning he got 17.9 rebounds a game off of your misses. Your offensive rebounds per game were 16.7, meaning you got 16.7 Rebounds off your own misses to his 17.9 off of your misses, less than fifty percent (48%) but damn good.

Meanwhile, he got .194% using the same calculation> T hat means that team using those averages in this game woudl have gotten: 8.64 rebounds off of his own misses compared to 9.32 for the other team, meanwhile he woudl have gotten about what I said - 2 offensive rebounds off his own misses with you getting 8 Defensive rebounds off of his misses, leading to a 11.32 - 16.64 rebounding advantage - somewhere between a 17 - 11 and 16 - 12 rebounding advantage. .and that team was a stronger rebounding team.


(That is calculatiosn off of the St MAry;s game)

Quote: Originally posted by a_in_the_b on 1/27/2010I said I found the no fouls a little odd myself.


As for rebounding, in a fairly similar amount of minutes, you rebounded fairly well against him with your starters, its your bench he dominated rebounding. Not sure how to interpret that, but its a starting point in dissecting things.

Ya i go with there is not enough fouls in general in HD which would end up giving you those couple extra FTs that your missing from this game.

Fair enough a, my calculation didn't include FT misses with rebounds. Still, I did that for two seasons in a row. Not sure I would say 40% is extraordinary with the type of ath/reb advantage I had against the defense I was playing.

When you add in the number of threes you shot in that first half, which are even harder to Offensive rebound than normal shots. . I just don't find it outside fo teh realm of possibility, although it might lie closer to the far end of it,.

Three other things here that you're not factoring in, isaac:

1) You're looking at PF/C. But his SFs dominate yours in REB since you played SGs - the average difference was like 2x in REB. He avg'd 64/38 for Ath/Reb and you avg'd 59/18. And then the stats bear this out - his SFs had 7 rebs and yours had none. That almost evens up the rebounding overall by itself.

2) You're ignoing IQ which does matter. Your PF/C have: A-, B, C+, F. His are: B+, B, A-, B. His average out to a B+, yours average out to a C+.

3) Your guys were more fatigued for more of the game than his.

All in all, I think this is probably one of those things that on the surface looks weird but when you look at how it happened, it makes total sense.

Every time cheez, every time.

Fair enough on the SF, but I should have had a big advantage at the PF/C, so that should even out the reb, not give him an advantage.

Here are what the PF/C average:

Mine: 59.75/80.5

His: 45.75/57.5

Should the one letter grade of IQ allow his bigs to get more rebounds than mine despite this massive gap in ratings?

Also, the worst any of my guys got was "tiring," but that was only Griffin, and only for a second before he was pulled.

I understand that if I look at the whole picture it looks better than just looking at the rankings, but I still just haven't been convinced that the distro/foul/rebounding issues work at all if compared to my gameplan/his gameplan/ratings.

1 team shot 28 free throws, the other shot zero.

burn the sim.

Haha, I'm over it.

I don't think it makes sense, but others seem to. Like I said, I'm a borderline WiS-whiner, but I have no problem losing when I think it makes sense (even if I don't think what happened is proportional).

I just don't see how the rebounding/FT disparity and 3pt shots taken jive with the gameplanning ratings.

Some of this was a ***** session, but I genuinely wanted see if someone could tell me what I am missing. Cheez and a did to some extent, but I don't fully buy their explanation (which is saying something, because I generally just shut up and listen to cheez).

Note in the first half, nearly half your shots were taken from three points. . then he shifted to the plus five.

Don't know what to say other than that the thign I find most odd about the game is not any ot the other things you mentioned(Such as the rebounding or Three shots), but the free throws.