Playing for free Topic

These last 4 or 5 comments have only supported my stance that you guys have been over-spoiled because of reward points....god forbid you'd actually have to pay to play this game...like I said, regardless of how good you are. WIS made a mistake at the beginning by giving away so many points and now they can never take them away because longtime freeloaders would just kick and scream until they changed it back...kind of like what's happening now. WIS is in business to do business.
3/3/2010 3:17 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By colonels19 on 3/03/2010These last 4 or 5 comments have only supported my stance that you guys have been over-spoiled because of reward points....god forbid you'd actually have to pay to play this game...like I said, regardless of how good you are. WIS made a mistake at the beginning by giving away so many points and now they can never take them away because longtime freeloaders would just kick and scream until they changed it back...kind of like what's happening now. WIS is in business to do business
I had numerous titles and cut back to 1 team. How does that show they are too high? All of the costs for WIS are fixed costs, therefore its not nearly as big of a loss as you continue to claim it is.
3/3/2010 3:20 PM
There are people here saying that they haven't dropped a dime on this game in 6 months to over a year...that's just bad business. And because of the big amounts of reward points, WIS has definitely lost a large sum of potential profit, so for you to not think so further supports that you're spoiled.

2 national titles gets you 11600 reward points...that buys you 6 almost 7 seasons...that's ridiculous from the business end...I don't care how tough it is to win an NT.
3/3/2010 3:25 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By colonels19 on 3/03/2010
There are people here saying that they haven't dropped a dime on this game in 6 months to over a year...that's just bad business. And because of the big amounts of reward points, WIS has definitely lost a large sum of potential profit, so for you to not think so further supports that you're spoiled. Actually not, but thanks for judging me.

2 national titles gets you 11600 reward points...that buys you 6 almost 7 seasons...that's ridiculous from the business end...I don't care how tough it is to win an NT. The fact that you believe this goes to show (again, go figure) that you still fail to understand HD, at all.



And please do stop calling me spoiled I had 5 teams and had paid for many seasons and then won a few titles and a few deep runs and then started deciding to cut teams. How I am spoiled because this is beyond me. I have bought seasons about a year ago. (I don't count the $.80 i dropped a month ago to even out my credits and add a season).
3/3/2010 3:35 PM
So because you paid for a bunch of seasons and were successful for a fair amount of them, you DESERVE to play on the house for X amount of seasons?

Tannermcc is suggesting that there are some users out there that have played 15-20+ consecutive seasons on the house and again, let's look at it from a business standpoint...that's a $150-$200 value, ABSOLUTELY FREE! Too many reward points are and have been awarded, and that's just bad business. I'm taking up the WIS side of the argument here...I can only imagine how much money they've lost due to excessive awarding of reward points.
3/3/2010 3:42 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By colonels19 on 3/03/2010These last 4 or 5 comments have only supported my stance that you guys have been over-spoiled because of reward points....god forbid you'd actually have to pay to play this game...like I said, regardless of how good you are. WIS made a mistake at the beginning by giving away so many points and now they can never take them away because longtime freeloaders would just kick and scream until they changed it back...kind of like what's happening now. WIS is in business to do business
Trust me, I knew the change was coming, especially in the sportsbook which was/is a great idea, but so underused that there were multiple seasons I'd sweep 1st, 2nd & 3rd w/ my 3 accounts in crum. And reward points there were significantly better than what you'd get playing the actual game. 2,000 for 1st, 1,000 for 2nd and 500 for 3rd. Often times it would be only me and my 3 accounts and 1 other coach actually fighting it out for reward points.

I was spoiled, and knew it at the time, however I didn't cut back because I wasn't getting as many reward points. I've grown tired of the game, its grown stale, just as most other games are. At the same time, I've picked up 2 HBD teams because I enjoy the depth of the game much, much more. I wish HD had as much depth, its almost laughable how little control you have in HD compared to HBD, and HBD is far from perfect or as deep as it could be.

Additionally, all that time playing for free, I'd like to think I generated money for WIS in other ways. I ran an OOC tournament for several seasons in D3 when I know 1 coach that hanged on for a few extra seasons just because of the tournament and coaches in it. I competed in 2 highly competitive D3 conferences that attracted many other successful coaches to re-up additional teams. I mentored several new coaches that came into my D3 conferences and would like to think that my guidance helped them understand the game a little better than they would have on their own and helped them fall victim to the same addicition I found here early on in my experience.

On top of that, I don't think my story is all that unique. Prior to the cut back of D3 reward points, there were a bunch of very successful D3 coaches hanging around crum w/ multiple accounts in crum. Most were more than willing to help out new coaches, teach them the ropes and walk them thru the initial stages of the game. D3 crum was a great experience during those early days from the 3P power poll, thru the ASC mega conference, rivalries all over the place, etc... Slowly those coaches w/ multiple accounts dropped their D3 accounts, or moved them up to D1 and D3 crum fell into a virtual wasteland.

Did I complain about the cutbacks in reward points? probably a bit, but I'm pretty much a capatilist and knew it wasn't my business to tell them their business. My guess is most were the same way, and voted the only way consumers can vote, by cutting back teams as they see fit. Once you cut one team that perhaps you were playing for free with, and get rid of the "emotional" investment, you realize its not that big of a deal to drop other teams that they might be spending real money on. I know I'm not the only one that has taken way too much interest in these sets of 1s & 0s w/ fake names from real high schools that we spend fake recruiting dollars on and put into game plans over the internet. Heck, I had 3 teams in crum at 1 point, because as I worked up the ladder w/ my first team, I wanted to see my 1st class thru at ferrum, so I created a 2nd account, and eventually a 3rd account to maintain ferrum many seasons after even my 1st recruiting class had graduated.
3/3/2010 3:58 PM
Using DI as an example, under the old system WIS rewarded 62,200 reward points each season.

It takes 2000 award points to earn a free season, so that breaks out to giving away roughly 31 free seasons for a game that could have 384 coaches at that level or roughly a 5% discount. That does not seem excessive to me.

Factor in that if every coach who received awards from a given season had never won any awards before, then only 8 of those 64 teams would have received enough points to have a free season. The other 56 would have to pay for a 2nd season or a 3rd or a 4th and so on until they have enough for their free season.

On a micro level, certain coaches will certainly achieve much greater discounts in terms of their free seasons, but it does not change that WIS is still only given all of the coaches in their entirety a 5% discount.

Under the new system, you can check the math, but WIS is awarding roughly $431 in discounts to its users who make the NT.

In a world in which all the users bought single seasons, the awards now equate to an 8.6% discount.

If all the users bought 5 packs, it's an 9.4% discount.

If all the users bought 10 packs, it's a 11.2% discount.

If anything, WIS is saying that regardless of some elite coaches playing many seasons for free, they feel it is worth it to increase a small discount that is offered and available to all of its users, provided that they perform at the top level of the game.

Someone else can do the math for DII and DIII.

Seems like a nice incentive and smart business to me.
3/3/2010 4:02 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By colonels19 on 3/03/2010
So because you paid for a bunch of seasons and were successful for a fair amount of them, you DESERVE to play on the house for X amount of seasons?

Tannermcc is suggesting that there are some users out there that have played 15-20+ consecutive seasons on the house and again, let's look at it from a business standpoint...that's a $150-$200 value, ABSOLUTELY FREE! Too many reward points are and have been awarded, and that's just bad business. I'm taking up the WIS side of the argument here...I can only imagine how much money they've lost due to excessive awarding of reward points.

From what I remember, there are lots of people who didn't even realize what their rewards points were or that they could use them until WiS changed its homepage to show them.

Itr was just a buildup of a lot of season, not because people can start from scratch and play for free (as noted, requiring an E8 appearance to do).
3/3/2010 4:03 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By colonels19 on 3/03/2010
So because you paid for a bunch of seasons and were successful for a fair amount of them, you DESERVE to play on the house for X amount of seasons?

Tannermcc is suggesting that there are some users out there that have played 15-20+ consecutive seasons on the house and again, let's look at it from a business standpoint...that's a $150-$200 value, ABSOLUTELY FREE! Too many reward points are and have been awarded, and that's just bad business. I'm taking up the WIS side of the argument here...I can only imagine how much money they've lost due to excessive awarding of reward points.

As I look at the difference b/w HD today, and what I walked into approx 4-5 years ago, I know something failed in their business plan. I don't think its mere coincidence that fail started right around the time they cut back reward points in D2 & D3. Its not the sole blame, far from it, but it did contribute. Besides, WIS has stated that the problem was never the amount of free seasons that were accumlated thru reward points, but rather having people cash those reward points in on gift cards to Dicks, borders, etc...

If you notice now, much of the reward system now limits you to spending that money soley on HD, similar to the system they have in HBD. If restoring reward points in some fashion is an admittance that it was a mistake when they originally cut them back, I don't know what would be.
3/3/2010 4:04 PM
heh, the sportsbook, does that still exist?
3/3/2010 4:06 PM
I've been playing for free for awhile now, but I did buy an amazon gift card so I might have to start paying soon.
3/3/2010 4:20 PM
I've almost never paid for HD.

In Knight, I started with a FREEHD team in season 2, I bought a 5-pack the end of that season (4/18/2008), and have never paid anything since.

I've still got 3-4 seasons of rewards points , so I'll probably end up with around 30 seasons out of that one 5-pack.
3/3/2010 4:36 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By srunstro on 3/03/2010I've almost never paid for HD.

In Knight, I started with a FREEHD team in season 2, I bought a 5-pack the end of that season (4/18/2008), and have never paid anything since.

I've still got 3-4 seasons of rewards points , so I'll probably end up with around 30 seasons out of that one 5-pack
Well that will happen when you average a final four for your first four years...
3/3/2010 4:38 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By vandydave on 3/03/2010heh, the sportsbook, does that still exist
yes, but if it was a pain in the butt before, its 10x more of a pain now. The only saving grace is very few coaches use it, like 2-3 a season based upon the worlds I'm in. I look at it every once in a while, so I know its still there, just not used very much. Great idea on paper, but once implement it doesn't really work as we can't "watch" these games like in real life to gather a feeling that we know how good team a or team b are.
3/3/2010 4:44 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 3/03/2010
Quote: Originally Posted By doomey on 3/03/2010
And IF the population is substanativly increased due to the restored incentive, then it will have been the right move.
IF it adds 1 more coach it was the right move
That's a bit of a leap.
3/3/2010 6:09 PM
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