Quote: Originally Posted By tecwrg on 5/07/2010

Quote: Originally Posted By timf on 5/07/2010

Quote: Originally Posted By tecwrg on 5/06/2010

Quote: Originally Posted By prezuiwf on 5/06/2010
That's true when it's a 20+. Not a freaking 2.

+1.

There is a point of diminishing values of having a fifth pitch over not having a fifth pitch. Like prez sez, it's somewhere in the 20's.




Have any of the Dev's said this or is this speculation? I'd like to know for sure because in real life I would 100% agree but I can't find anywhere that what you are saying is correct.

1) This Q/A from the 1/21/2009 HBD Developers Chat seems to imply the "diminishing values" portion of my statement:

One of my Ace starters has his 5th pitch rated at 18. In 10 seasons I've had the best pitching coach in the world on couple of occasions but he did not drop that 5th pitch. Better yet, why is he even trying to throw this pitch knowing he has 4 better ones to chose from? (radek - Hall of Famer - 3:24 PM)

A pitching coach makes the decision whether having a pitch helps or hinders a pitcher based on his overall number and grades of pitches. If it makes more sense to keep a pitch (a show-me pitch), then it won't be dropped.

2) The "somewhere in the 20's" is my own speculation. Anything lower than that, I assume it's a liability. Nothing at all to back that up but my own idea of what seems reasonable. The fact that the pitcher in question above did not drop an 18 may imply that an 18 is in fact acceptable, at least for that particular player.

Read the very last line. If he doesn't drop the pitche it should be okay, FOR THAT PARICULAR PLAYER. It's all speculation since even the DEV's don't know for sure but he does say the player will keep the pitch if it isn't hindering him.

If the pitching coach deems it a hinderance the player will drop it. If you have a crap pitching coach, it may be a hinderance, yet the pitcher will keep the pitch.

Quote: Originally Posted By timf on 5/06/2010Why would you want him to drop a pitch? Even if it's a bad pitch it has been said many times by dev's that a 5th pitch, even very bad, is more effective than not having a 5th pitch.

Ohhh....so that is why a player's overall rating is lower with that 5th terrible pitch.

Being that the pitches combined are used together (and not individually as some are suggesting with the talk of a particular pitch being called/not being called) to figure the results of an entire at bat. If you have 4 average to high rated pitches, then a 5th pitch that is a 2 should be throwing off that average that you would have if you just had the other 4 pitches alone.

I am going to bump this thread once again to get feedback on the following question:

Assuming that pairing him with my best minor league PC will increase the likelihood of dropping that last pitch, do you think it is better let Coleman progress through the minors normally or do I promote him to AAA now?

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i wouldn't put a 19-year-old, second-year player in AAA unless he was an INT with ridiculous ratings.

Quote: Originally posted by schedule1 on 5/10/2010i wouldn't put a 19-year-old, second-year player in AAA unless he was an INT with ridiculous ratings.

Under normal circumstances I wouldn't consider it, but that 2 rated pitch HAS to go! So I am still mulling over the trade-off but I think I will table until next year and drop a ton of $$ on his High A or AA pitching coach.

I can not get one of my top pitchers to drop his 5th pitch either. I've been trying to get him the top Pitching Coaches at each level but it just won't happen.

[URL=http://www.whatifsports.com/hbd/Pages/Popups/PlayerProfile.aspx?pid=2908326]Bret Chance[/URL]

I have no idea how to post a player link in the forums, so hopefully this works.

Quote: Originally posted by mlhutch on 5/10/2010

Quote: Originally posted by schedule1 on 5/10/2010i wouldn't put a 19-year-old, second-year player in AAA unless he was an INT with ridiculous ratings.

Under normal circumstances I wouldn't consider it, but that 2 rated pitch HAS to go! So I am still mulling over the trade-off but I think I will table until next year and drop a ton of $$ on his High A or AA pitching coach.

don't make your decision on where to place him on the basis of hoping to get him to drop his bad pitch...it seems instances of pitchers actually dropping a pitch are extremely rare...