Yeah, I wouldn't mind a little bit of change here, but to make D1 like D3 isn't the best idea either I think.

The big schools should have some built in advantages just because they are big. I mean, Alcorn State and Ohio State don't, and won't ever have anything in common in athletics.

The budget, the boosters, the alumni, I mean it would take 50 years for Alcorn State to overtake Ohio State. And maybe more.

So a baseline is needed I think. It could float more than it does now, but going to a D3 system where the only thing that matters is the last 4 years......not a good idea. I know NIU beat Kansas, but when a 2nd rnd cinderella gets a better prestige than someone like LSU (who got crushed in the SEC this year) its not a correct system.

Maybe a 16 year window or something longer could work at D1, and Baselines could be phased out, but I still think the big conferences need to get some kind of bonus, other wise you'll have 1-2 good teams in every conference, and super conferences like the ACC will disband due to the geographic pressure they put on each other

And firing a coach for not winning the NT every 5-7 seasons at UCLA or Duke is going to lead to those jobs being super crappy. Its TOUGH to win a NT at D1, even with great players. Even with the best recruits, best gameplan and everything the best team wins the NT only 1 in 10 times.

To fire someone for 'bad luck' isn't cool. Now if they can't make the NT in 5 years at Duke, can them, but winning the NT is too high a bar.

I think A+ programs should be held to a higher standard. While maybe winning a NT only might be a bit...a final four appearance every 10 should be in the cards.

i certainly have problems with baseline prestige but to be worrying about an A prestige in a Big 6 conference is really ******* in the wind. come on man.

Graham ~ There really isn't that much difference in the current engine between A and A+ baseline programs. And there are like 10 of them, so it might be hard to do.

But I agree that a NT appearance and 1st round exit every 10 years probably isn't enough to keep your job at an A+ School. I wish firing logic took into account how long you'd been there and if your team was on an upward or downward trend before and after you got there.

A friend got fired at UMass after not making the NT for 7 years, his first 7, but he did get them from a D or D+ to a C+ prestige and the year after he they got to the 2nd round of the NT with his players. I thought that was a bit rough.

I also feel that baseline prestige is a problem and wish people would realize that HD is not real life and that what happens in one should have no bearing on the other.

Quote: Originally posted by reinsel on 5/17/2010Yeah, I wouldn't mind a little bit of change here, but to make D1 like D3 isn't the best idea either I think.The big schools should have some built in advantages just because they are big.  I mean, Alcorn State and Ohio State don't, and won't ever have anything in common in athletics.  The budget, the boosters, the alumni, I mean it would take 50 years for Alcorn State to overtake Ohio State.  And maybe more.So a baseline is needed I think.  It could float more than it does now, but going to a D3 system where the only thing that matters is the last 4 years......not a good idea.  I know NIU beat Kansas, but when a 2nd rnd cinderella gets a better prestige than someone like LSU (who got crushed in the SEC this year) its not a correct system.Maybe a 16 year window or something longer could work at D1, and Baselines could be phased out, but I still think the big conferences need to get some kind of bonus, other wise you'll have 1-2 good teams in every conference, and super conferences like the ACC will disband due to the geographic pressure they put on each other 

1. In HD, there are no super conferences.

2. The MAC has a LOT more geographic pressure than the ACC - should they get an advantage too?

3. To echo Rails, why should HD give an advantage to a school or a conference that hasn't earned it in its own world of "what if"?

Doomey...I've been fighting baseline prestige since I took over Colorado State in Tark. I've put tickets in to CS and nothing has been done about it although my last one they did say they would have a look at it over the next while. But it does suck and it's totally deflating to see schools you battle with for recruits leap frog you in prestige when your record is better than theirs. I won the NT and couldn't make an A+ prestige. My last four seasons I've made the final four twice and the sweet 16 twice and I have an A- prestige. My last 17 seasons I've only missed the NT once. I was an A two seasons ago and only made the sweet 16 so dropped to an A-. Kansas that same season also finished at the sweet 16 and they jumped from an A- to an A, and I finished with a higher RPI and a higher final season rank. Our conference also had a higher RPI than the Big 12. It doesn't make sense. In my opinion prestige should be based on WIS success only. Real life should have zero bearing on where a program's prestige should be at.

Quote: Originally Posted By cedarking on 5/17/2010I also feel that baseline prestige is a problem and wish people would realize that HD is not real life and that what happens in one should have no bearing on the other

Give this man a cigar. What if, folks...

to add to some points, look at Gonzaga and now Butler. Gonzaga had a bad baseline prestige at some point IRL but now can afford an off year because it has become a brand name.

Kentucky and UCLA have had 5-7 year layoffs and it takes them getting back to winning ways to be relevant again.

I would love to take a small DI school and build it into a powerhouse, but the reality is if I get a chance to jump to a power conference, I will prolly take it ONLY BECAUSE OF THE BASELINE PRESTIGE B.S.......in my opinion, baseline prestige is the only major flaw with HD.

Well even in the power conferences there are good examples, Duke being the glaring one.

Okay don't do it based on winning it all then. But make it a final 4 every 3-5 years or your canned at the A+/A baseline schools. I mean take a look at the big time schools, winning it all is important. At a certain point just making the NT every year or even sweet 16s is not enough for those big time programs.

Also, if you don't make it to the NT for 5 years at Duke you must be the worst HD coach. I couldn't imagine not being able to make it with such an advantage in prestige.

Here is three cases in which I think the coaches should be fired, well one of them shouldn't be fired now but thats because he finally won the NT.

Case #1 Pre-National Champion Year(Wisconsin, A- Baseline, 2 PIT in last 5 years)
25 cyric612 30-5 1 1 A+ CT Champion
National Champion
24 cyric612 18-12 77 B PI (1st Round)
23 cyric612 14-14 101 B
22 cyric612 22-11 45 B PI (Championship Game)
21 cyric612 8-19 149 B-
20 cyric612 9-18 179 B
19 cyric612 20-11 20 B NT At-large Bid
NT (2nd Round)
18 cyric612 15-12 106 B-
17 cyric612 15-13 91 B- PI (1st Round)
16 cyric612 10-17 177 B-
15 cyric612 17-15 65 B- PI (3rd Round)
14 cyric612 7-21 202 B-
13 cyric612 20-11 46 B NT At-large Bid
NT (1st Round)
12 cyric612 11-17 127 B-


Case #2 (Kentucky, A+ Baseline, 4 NT in last 5 Years/ 2 S16 runs)
25 khook19 21-9 32 A- NT At-large Bid
NT (2nd Round)
24 khook19 10-17 137 A-
23 khook19 17-13 30 A Conf Champion
NT At-large Bid
NT (Sweet 16)
22 khook19 23-8 15 10 A- CT Champion
NT (2nd Round)
21 khook19 21-9 19 B+ NT At-large Bid
NT (Sweet 16)
20 khook19 12-15 124 B-
19 khook19 7-20 186 B

Case #3 (UCLA, A+ Baseline, 1 E8 + 3 PIT in last 5 Seasons)
25 daveymac 17-11 68 B+ PI (1st Round)
24 daveymac 16-12 71 B+ PI (1st Round)
23 daveymac 9-18 168 A-
22 daveymac 16-13 67 A PI (2nd Round)
21 daveymac 22-10 14 16 A+ NT At-large Bid
NT (Elite 8)
20 daveymac 19-12 21 A NT At-large Bid
NT (Elite 8)
19 daveymac 21-11 36 B+ NT At-large Bid
NT (2nd Round)
18 daveymac 8-19 158 B
17 daveymac 17-15 65 B+ PI (2nd Round)
16 daveymac 19-9 54 B NT At-large Bid
NT (1st Round)
15 daveymac 13-14 134 B-
14 daveymac 11-17 106 B-
13 daveymac 15-13 128 B-

You can make a case for Kentucky since they do have 2 Sweet 16s, but the other two coaches should have been gone. Wisconsin is safe now because of the NT Championship but UCLA which had an A+ Prestige 5 seasons back has done nothing lately.

I say step up the firings but let the coaches that get fired land at mid-major/low-level schools that are rated still high in prestige that no one else would take over.

Baseline prestige?

I have been playing for quite a while now. What is this baseline prestige and how on earth can you justify it? I have read they were set in 2003? how does having a baseline in 2010 they same as it was in 2003 make sense to you? I can't believe I have been getting bent over this entire time trying to coach the school I graduated from.
What is being done about this for the future?

5/18/2010 12:14 AM Customer Support
All that means is that the traditional powerhouse schools will have a slightly easier time maintaining a high prestige and they won't drop as quickly if they struggle. It doesn't limit how high you can take a lower level school. If you have success that rivals the top schools, your prestige will climb.


I love the scientific term "slightly" easier.....

Quote: Originally Posted By texrangers19 on 5/18/2010
Baseline prestige?

I have been playing for quite a while now. What is this baseline prestige and how on earth can you justify it? I have read they were set in 2003? how does having a baseline in 2010 they same as it was in 2003 make sense to you? I can't believe I have been getting bent over this entire time trying to coach the school I graduated from.
What is being done about this for the future?

5/18/2010 12:14 AM Customer Support
All that means is that the traditional powerhouse schools will have a slightly easier time maintaining a high prestige and they won't drop as quickly if they struggle. It doesn't limit how high you can take a lower level school. If you have success that rivals the top schools, your prestige will climb.


I love the scientific term "slightly" easier.....

This is EXTREMELY misleading. It will rise, but it will be equal or lower to teams that have a higher baseline prestige. I offer the following 2 schools in Allen - guess which one has a higher baseline:

Season	Coach	Overall	Home	Road	Neutral	Conf	Rank	RPI	Prestige	Notes
42	xxxx	0-0	0-0	0-0	0-0	0-0	17	0	-
41	xxxx	10-17	8-6	2-10	0-1	6-10		144	A-
40	xxxx	16-15	11-5	5-8	0-2	5-11		57	A	PI (Final Four)
39	xxxx	19-11	9-3	8-6	2-2	10-6	22	24	A	NT At-large Bid NT (2nd Round)
38	xxxx	16-14	9-6	6-7	1-1	5-11		54	A	PI (2nd Round)
37	xxxx	17-14	9-5	8-7	0-2	8-8		54	A	PI (Final Four)

and:

Season	Coach	Overall	Home	Road	Neutral	Conf	Rank	RPI	Prestige	Notes
42	xxxx	0-0	0-0	0-0	0-0	0-0	14	0	-
41	xxxx	25-6	11-2	11-2	3-2	14-2	13	5	A-	Conf Champion NT At-large Bid NT (Sweet 16)
40	xxxx	28-5	11-2	12-1	5-2	15-1	6	9	A-	Conf Champion NT At-large Bid NT (Final Four)
39	xxxx	29-5	13-0	9-4	7-1	15-1	3	2	A-	Conf Champion CT Champion NT (Final Four)
38	xxxx	28-5	12-1	11-2	5-2	14-2	8	2	B+	Conf Champion NT At-large Bid NT (Elite 8)
37	xxxx	30-3	12-1	12-1	6-1	16-0	3	3	B	Conf Champion CT Champion NT (Elite 8)

I have never seen a low DI school rise above A- after a season. I have occasionally seen them jump from A- to A after the draft, but they return to A- at best after the following season.