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Quote: Originally posted by nbstowman on 5/28/2010the 5 dollar credit which expires in a week is a completely bs token.

This I agree with.

Quote: Originally posted by sully712 on 5/28/2010When have they ever given money back?  Anyways, thats not the point.  The beta test world was a joke.  Sounds like someone is on the WIS payroll.

I wish I was on their payroll ... I am not.

Why all the, you are on the WIS payroll BS anyway.

I pay to play this game ... by and large I like the game ... my opinion is just as worthy as yours.

2. Dynasty Games. You may receive a refund for unused Dynasty Game (with the exceotion of Hardball Dynasty Game, which is governed by C.1 above) seasons if the request comes before the renewal deadline for the current Dynasty Game season you are participating in. If the unused seasons were purchased as part of a multi-pack, the maximum refund you may receive will be for the balance of the purchase amount minus the used seasons at the non-discounted price. For example, if you purchase a 10 pack of Hoops Dynasty seasons for $99.95 and use 5 of those seasons and request a refund for the remaining 5 seasons, you would receive a refund of $35.20 ($99.95 - (5 x $12.95)).

That's from the terms of use, so apparently you actually can get a refund.

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Terms of Use docs are pretty standard, ike. If you've read/written/proofed one, you've read them all.

Fair enough, my area of expertise is not irrelevant-to-most-but-important-for-litigation-purposes contract law.

I still think a creative attorney could argue liability even in light of that provision if WIS had been massively negligent, although they clearly haven't been, so it doesn't really matter. Looks like they have a refund provision anyway, so people could get some of their money back.

I see your point. I would pay, regardless. I do think that WIS customer service is absolutely p*ss poor. Whenever I have submitted a ticket, I get a response like, "well, fortunately for you we are going to help you this time." It's like they don't notice I have paid them season after season after season. Strange

It also seems to me that the vast majority of the problems caused happened because seble was trying to be accommodating to everyone.

The Knight issue was likely caused by increased complexity introduced in the code due the fact that he has to have more than one engine running at the same time.

The initial issues that we saw in Allen/Smith were also likely caused by the exact same thing, since they were not happening in the beta world.

Had they just cut everyone over to the new code at once and not tried to stagger it, these likely could have been avoided.

But, rather than applaud the effort, instead all they get is complaint.

No amount of beta testing would have also reproduced the exact conditions and coding required when moving into production.

Quote: Originally posted by hughesjr on 5/28/2010
The Knight issue was likely caused by increased complexity introduced in the code due the fact that he has to have more than one engine running at the same time.

I'm pretty sure what specifically happened was that the section of code in the new engine dealing with practice improvements/regressions was applied to the old engine, with the result that players who had zero practice minutes in areas where they had maxed out (which was OK under the old engine, but not in the new) suffered drops where their ratings would otherwise have stayed flat.

Quote: Originally posted by antonsirius on 5/28/2010

Quote: Originally posted by hughesjr on 5/28/2010The Knight issue was likely caused by increased complexity introduced in the code due the fact that he has to have more than one engine running at the same time.

I'm pretty sure what specifically happened was that the section of code in the new engine dealing with practice improvements/regressions was applied to the old engine, with the result that players who had zero practice minutes in areas where they had maxed out (which was OK under the old engine, but not in the new) suffered drops where their ratings would otherwise have stayed flat.

Nope, that's not what happened.

Quote: Originally posted by seble on 5/26/2010This is completely my fault as I had some testing code in that caused Knight to run multiple practices using the new release logic.

Well, that's what I was basing my assumption on. What did happen then?

It looks like the world rolled over. I had some players with 7-10 minutes of practice time drop from their maximum. The new rollover logic from season to season seems to cause player ratings to drop in general.

It's possible that 7 minutes now causes ratings to drop. This wasn't the case in the test world though.

Quote: Originally Posted By hughesjr on 5/28/2010You are paying to play the game they have released ... not an old game and not some game they may or may not release in the future.

The beta test world was free.

If you don't like the released game ... don't pay to play it.

If you have payed for future games, they will refund your money for unused games if you ask them to.

No one is making anyone play anything they don't want to play. Nor has anyone payed for anything in the future at all (at least not that isn't refundable).

If you don't like it, then quit

Missed the boat completely with the original post. The point being that the beta testing was rushed and not thoroughly done. With stop and go testing, people lose interest. Now, we are paying for an UNFINISHED product.