Posted by kmasonbx on 8/30/2010 11:22:00 AM (view original):
"I twice have had 50k left, two open scholies, and no recruits really left to go after that I wanted or thought would be worth making an enemy, then what do you do, pick up two throwaway guys and bank 48k times .25 = 12k, or let the 50k go down the drain?"

I've thought about doing what you describe here before, signing guys just for the carryover cash but isn't that actually counterproductive? I say this because if you don't sign anybody you lose the carryover cash which looks bad but you get two walkons who become open scholarships next season and you would get 30k to fill those 2 spots instead of the 12k you got in carry over money.

I'm in the camp that "poaching" is no big deal, in most cases it's not something malicious it's usually something like OR describes or your situation jslot, you get a couple of main targets early and lock them up only to realize you have a bunch of cash left and look around to see if there is anybody else you can get and by that point in D1 everybody worth getting will be considering somebody. You either go after that guy right away or you can wait to see if the coach or coaches going after that recruit overextend themselves with other recruits and then you make your move. It's just sound strategy, in my opinion.

Wouldn't it possibly depend on how many slots you were going to have next year?  If the year after you were graduating five seniors with five open slots the math woudl be a bit different than if the next year you were only going to be graduating one?  I would think the best of all worlds might be to reach down and pick up a cheap division two senior transfer that woudl then graduate at the end of the year and keep both carryover AND the open slot?

I'm not a big fan of poaching, but mostly that is because it has happened to me a few times and I didn't enjoy it.  Now, I'm also not at the same level of success as some coaches, so I don't tend to have to worry about battling for the top-tier players.  However, I've noticed a few posts on this topic that coaches are saying they happen to end up with X amount of money and a couple spots still open.  Isn't that part of planning though, to avoid this? 

At the beginning of recruiting, I know the guys that I am going after and I go after them.  If I get bumped off of my top targets, I have my backup targets.  Do you upper level coaches not have the same planning?  Shed some light on a mid-level guy here!

Hmmm sometimes at top D1, you don't so much have targets, because the price tag can be EXTREMELY variable.  I have signed guys for $4000 one year that go for $20,000 the next.  It all depends on who is bidding and the local needs so it pays to be a little more flexible at high D1 than lower levels, I think.

Plus good D1 teams don't usually have as glaring of needs, so can afford to go with more of a best player available strategy, instead of a need based strategy.

I am not good though, but I am learning.

Posted by reinsel on 8/30/2010 4:06:00 PM (view original):
Hmmm sometimes at top D1, you don't so much have targets, because the price tag can be EXTREMELY variable.  I have signed guys for $4000 one year that go for $20,000 the next.  It all depends on who is bidding and the local needs so it pays to be a little more flexible at high D1 than lower levels, I think.

Plus good D1 teams don't usually have as glaring of needs, so can afford to go with more of a best player available strategy, instead of a need based strategy.

I am not good though, but I am learning.

I've never looked at it that way, but again, I've not been at the top level of competition either.  Good point!

Honestly, I usually set a number of targets that correlates identically with my number of open scholarships.  If, say, Illinois or Iowa in my conference are on one of those targets the first cycle after recruiting starts and I can afford to go elsewhere, I generally do.  This was a unique situation in that I wasn't able to recruit really until the very last cycle pre-signings, and only then figured that I might have the cashola to go after a third recruit.  I also heart walk-ons for the 11th and 12th spots. 

"Plus good D1 teams don't usually have as glaring of needs, so can afford to go with more of a best player available strategy, instead of a need based strategy."

I really disagree with this, I think at the highest levels of D1 often times the top teams have even more glaring needs due to EEs. Let's say you have a Sr. PG, two Sr. SGs and a So. PG who declares early, now you have 4 open spots that you absolutely have to fill instead of 3 that would be need positions for every other level. Also because of fierce battles you often plan to have walkons so you can have enough money to battle for the positions you need so a lot of times you don't have the luxury of being 3 deep at a couple of positions.

I had eight open scholarships the year before last.  That wasn't really all that fun. 

no sympathy for too many openings after a National Title. None. :)

but i think most coaches at high-d1 look to leave one open scholly, sometimes 2, in order to be able to reserve money to spend on the best players. in the old days, they were often able to lock those guys up and then spend the extra money on a RS player or a transfer or maybe even a solid contributor, but this may be going the way of the dodo with more battles for the top players (hopefully?)

Wonder if Coach K loses any sleep when he signs someone away from NC? Poach and be poached.

I've poached and I've been poached.  It's just part of recruiting.  I will say though, that when I get poached it's awfully hard to forget who got me and, given the chance, I would probably return the favor............

Posted by rnevel on 8/30/2010 5:14:00 PM (view original):
Wonder if Coach K loses any sleep when he signs someone away from NC? Poach and be poached.

"Poach and be poached." Very fitting.

Posted by ardthomp on 8/30/2010 4:01:00 PM (view original):
I'm not a big fan of poaching, but mostly that is because it has happened to me a few times and I didn't enjoy it.  Now, I'm also not at the same level of success as some coaches, so I don't tend to have to worry about battling for the top-tier players.  However, I've noticed a few posts on this topic that coaches are saying they happen to end up with X amount of money and a couple spots still open.  Isn't that part of planning though, to avoid this? 

At the beginning of recruiting, I know the guys that I am going after and I go after them.  If I get bumped off of my top targets, I have my backup targets.  Do you upper level coaches not have the same planning?  Shed some light on a mid-level guy here!

ard, you say "Isn't that part of planning though, to avoid this"? 

The fact is, there's no way to plan for it. I could have the exact same recruiting strategy, and the first time I might encounter 2-3 major battles, and the next time I might encounter none. No matter how much you plan, there's a very definite "luck of the draw" element that will always exist. So if you plan as though you're expecting to battle and you get lucky enough where you don't have to, you will have money left over. The flipside is sometimes you may be in many battles and your entire recruiting strategy crumbles around you.

Posted by daalter on 8/31/2010 7:17:00 AM (view original):

Posted by ardthomp on 8/30/2010 4:01:00 PM (view original):
I'm not a big fan of poaching, but mostly that is because it has happened to me a few times and I didn't enjoy it.  Now, I'm also not at the same level of success as some coaches, so I don't tend to have to worry about battling for the top-tier players.  However, I've noticed a few posts on this topic that coaches are saying they happen to end up with X amount of money and a couple spots still open.  Isn't that part of planning though, to avoid this? 

At the beginning of recruiting, I know the guys that I am going after and I go after them.  If I get bumped off of my top targets, I have my backup targets.  Do you upper level coaches not have the same planning?  Shed some light on a mid-level guy here!

ard, you say "Isn't that part of planning though, to avoid this"? 

The fact is, there's no way to plan for it. I could have the exact same recruiting strategy, and the first time I might encounter 2-3 major battles, and the next time I might encounter none. No matter how much you plan, there's a very definite "luck of the draw" element that will always exist. So if you plan as though you're expecting to battle and you get lucky enough where you don't have to, you will have money left over. The flipside is sometimes you may be in many battles and your entire recruiting strategy crumbles around you.

daalter...I hear ya.  That is why I was asking the question.  I have a specific strategy for recruiting as I can't battle with the big boys right now.  There is, in my opinion, a difference in recruiting with the upper level coaches and the mid level coaches, so I just wanted to get some clarification on the topic.  Thanks!

Posted by emy1013 on 8/30/2010 6:15:00 PM (view original):
I've poached and I've been poached.  It's just part of recruiting.  I will say though, that when I get poached it's awfully hard to forget who got me and, given the chance, I would probably return the favor............

You talking about me emy???