As the posters said earlier, your guy got into foul trouble and only played 11min, so that hurts his rebounding production. 

You also ran a press defense, which reduced your defensive rebounding rate. 

Then throw in the 45 free throws, which further reduces the number of rebounds for this guy.

These factors combined can give you a 0 rebound night. 

Dwight Howard, who is arguably one of the most dominant rebounder in recent memory (and we can agree is far superior your player) has had the occasional 3 - 5 rebound nights in 20min, albeit not this year. But off nights happen, and happens more frequently when you are in foul trouble. Idk about you, but when I played in high school, I sure got less aggressive when I had 4 fouls and my coach told me to play it safe and not foul out. I didn't play in college (not gonna lie, I simply wasn't good enough) but I have friends who have played in D3 and D2 who also play a little less aggressive when in foul trouble. 

And one final point, why shouldn't stamina affect rebounding? If one guy just ran a marathon while the other guy just woke up from a nap, who do you think is going to be a better rebounder assuming their height and rebounding skills are similar? 

not even gonna get into an arguement with people you should know that if your in foul trouble it doesnt effect your defensive rebouding ability AT ALL, i still dont see how anyone on his team could outrebound my player.

Posted by jayhawks2130 on 12/27/2010 4:06:00 AM (view original):
not even gonna get into an arguement with people you should know that if your in foul trouble it doesnt effect your defensive rebouding ability AT ALL, i still dont see how anyone on his team could outrebound my player.

So you agree that foul trouble affects your offensive rebounding ability? If you agree to that, then all we have to do is to explain the defensive rebounding, correct?

Now think about how a fullcourt press works. You played basketball in college, you should know that when you run a fullcourt press all game, it hinders your defensive rebounding ability. Once the other team breaks the press, it generally leads to a 3 on 2 or 2 on1 situation, which means the offensive team has the rebounding advantage. At worst, it's a 3 on 3 once they break the press since you have 2 guys trying to trap the guy with the ball. When it becomes a quick 3 on 3, rebounding becomes pretty balanced since you are not boxing out as often. So that lowers some of your defensive rebounds.

And when your opponent is scoring via free throws, it eliminates alot of defensive rebounds. He took 45 free throws, or somewhere equivalent to 20-25 offensive possessions. Sure he missed 9 of them, but I didn't check whether they were the first shot or the 2nd shot. Suppose a team shoots 50% under this new engine, by allows your opponent to have 23 possessions worth of shots in free throws, you eliminated 11-12 defensive rebounding opportunities. Now let's assume half of the 9 misses, or 5, are on 2nd shots. So in reality, your fouls eliminated 12-5= 7 defensive rebounding opportunities.

Now throw in the fact that your guy got into foul trouble, which probably means he was involved in alot of plays when he was the guy pressing/trapping the one with the ball. This means if once the other team breaks the press, he would most likely not be involved in the 3on 2, 2 on 1, or the 3 on 3 on defense. This means he probably isn't even near the rim once the other team takes the shot. If he's not near the rim, how is he suppose to grab alot of defensive rebounds?

So there you go, the reasons why this guy had 0 rebounds in 11min. He was in foul trouble, so he can't rebound as aggressively on the offensive end, which from your post, you agree with.

Defensive rebounds are also 0 because you press alot, giving up any rebounding edge you have on the defensive end. Fouled ALOT, which means you eliminated defensive rebound opportunities. And your guy was involved in the press, so once press breaks, he isn't in position to grab a defensive rebound.

And is it really that absurd for a guy to have an off night and grab 0 rebound, much less 0 rebound in 11min?

Kevin Garnett had 2 rebounds in 30+ min on Nov 19th.
Amare had 3x 4 reb nights when he had over 30min.
Chris Bosh had 1 reb in 26 min, and then another 1 reb game 2 games later where he played 33 min.
Shaq just had a 1 reb game against the Magic

These are just a few big man who I think are the top rebounders on their team, and voila, have extremely poor rebounding nights. If you convert their skill into ratings for this game, where would it be. Ath = 80-100, reb= 80-100 as well? If these guys can have off nights and grab 1 reb in 33min, what makes your guy so special that he can't grab 0 rebound in 11min, running a full court press, while in foul trouble?

And not trying to beat a deadhorse, how well do you think a guy can box out after running a marathon? Probably not very good, right? Stamina, or in real life fatigue, invariably affects the skill of an athlete in all aspects of the game, whether it be MJ's ability to do the free throw dunk, Jamarcus Russel's 80 yard bomb during the Combines, or getting a defensive rebound via boxing out. I don't think stamina affected your player here since he only played 11min, but if there is a player with stamina of 1, no way should he be able to grab defensive rebounds as effectively as a guy with stamina = 100 late in the game. 

For the Kansas Jayhawks this season,

*Marcus Morris had 9 rebounds vs. Arizona in 25 minutes, but only 2 against Longwood in 26 minutes. 
*Markeiff Morris  had 3 boards vs. Arizona in 20 minutes but got 15 vs. Longwood.

"BTW, there are many users here who either play or have played college ball and there are also several college level coaches on here as well. Be careful accusing someone of not knowing what they are talking about because they just may know more than you think."

Yeah, and not only that, players at the collegiate level often know a lot less than they think.

I played collegiate baseball, and I realize now how little I knew then.  If I knew half as much about what wins games as I do now, I might have been a MUCH better hitter.

Posted by isack24 on 12/26/2010 11:52:00 PM (view original):

Posted by hughesjr on 12/26/2010 10:36:00 PM (view original):
He played 11 minutes total, but he had 2 fouls almost the entire 1st half (so he played limited minutes and also played tentatively after 2 fouls).
He got his 3rd foul less than a minute in to the 2nd half ... again, limited playing time and very tentative play results.

This is the reason (IMHO) ... he must play very timidly when he has 2 fouls so early in the 1st half and 3 fouls so early in the 2nd half.

Timidity?

Does a fake player really become more tentative with 2 fouls?  How would the engine even address that? 

In real life, if you have 2 fouls in the 1st half, you play much less aggressively (and are frequently pulled for large stretches in the half). If you pick up the your 3rd foul in the first half, most coaches keep you out all most all of the first half.


As to how it could be implemented, that would be easy.  They could reduce the rebounding, driving to the basket, etc, if you have more than 2 fouls in the 1st half and more than 3 fouls in the 2nd half.  I would assume that if you set your foul trouble setting in the Player Gameplan to More Aggressive it would affect not only how many minutes you play (it can give you more minutes if in foul trouble), but how aggressive you play with foul issues.

OK, but your entire post presumes knowledge that timidity is written in to the code, which I doubt.

And, I'm not sure how much foul trouble really affects defensive rebounding in real life.

the guy averages 6 rebounds in 19 minutes

look at his game log and in other games he has been as high as 10 and 13 and as low as 2 and 3

getting zero in roughly half his normal minutes is not at all surprising

by the way, was it "retarded" when he got 10 or 13 rebounds?  or was it the normal random variability?

This thread raises the weight on the stupid scale

nah, it allows us to create a new minimum unit for measuring coaching IQ - the capability of every other coach can be measured in multiples of this minimum unit

Posted by fd343ny on 12/27/2010 9:24:00 AM (view original):
nah, it allows us to create a new minimum unit for measuring coaching IQ - the capability of every other coach can be measured in multiples of this minimum unit

The jayhawk? Okay, I guess I'm like a 12 jayhawk.

statistics is really not that difficult of a subject

Posted by tkimble on 12/27/2010 10:28:00 AM (view original):

Posted by fd343ny on 12/27/2010 9:24:00 AM (view original):
nah, it allows us to create a new minimum unit for measuring coaching IQ - the capability of every other coach can be measured in multiples of this minimum unit

The jayhawk? Okay, I guess I'm like a 12 jayhawk.

fd343ny & tkimble are my new favorite posters....

What's the "jayhawk scale"?  3 conference championships in 18 years is once every six years, or the same probability as what you'd expect for a SIM school in a 6 SIM division.  As a measure of coaching, I think you guys are on to something here....

4 more conference championships in 5 less years makes me about a 9 jayhawk.

congrats on a nice season Jayhawks

I hate everybody on WIS