OT- Have you experienced Jimmer Fredette yet?? Topic

1974 NBA Draft

1. Akeem Olajumon
2. Sam Bowie
3. Michael Jordan

Picking Bowie over Jordan is widely considered the worst draft choice of all time. Bowie had missed two compete seasons at Kentucky with shin problems although, by his senior year, he was playing well.

1/13/2011 4:59 AM
Must be early in the morning Al, I think you mean 1984.  And BTW, John Stockton was the 16th pick of that draft.
1/13/2011 7:15 AM
Posted by tianyi7886 on 1/13/2011 1:11:00 AM (view original):
Posted by zhawks on 1/12/2011 9:52:00 PM (view original):
My point is that for every good college player that might make it I can name more that don't even come close, nothing against Jimmer I just don't see him being anything more then a backup in the NBA with the right franchise. I'm sure he gets drafted I just don't see it.
I think this is true in almost every sport. Just by being physically gifted can make you good in college. You need to be gifted and have the desire and drive to be great in order to be good in NBA, or any other pro leagues. Even many of the college greats end up being busts in the pro game. 
Definitely true. Also, there are just different levels of being physically gifted ... there are a lot of guys who are "college fast" and/or "college big/strong" who are just pedestrian in those abilities compared to guys at the next level.
1/13/2011 7:19 AM
Yep, Bowie was drafted in 1984, not 1974. Thanks for the correction.

He still lives in Lexington and made hundreds of thousands of dollars with a harness racer named "Before He Cheats" (named after the Carrie Underwood song).  His daughter,, Gabby,  plays high school varsity basketball as a 7th grader and is over 6 ft. tall.
1/13/2011 7:28 AM
in a little known fact Kentucky actually retired Sam Bowie's redshirt.

Another questionable draft pick was in 2003:   1) LeBron James  2) Darko Milicic  3) Carmelo Anthony  4) Chris Bosh   5)  Dwyane Wade 
one of these is not like the others
1/13/2011 9:36 AM
don't rag on Bosh. he's a pivotal part of Miami's new Big 2 1/2. 
1/13/2011 10:01 AM
Posted by Iguana1 on 1/13/2011 9:36:00 AM (view original):
in a little known fact Kentucky actually retired Sam Bowie's redshirt.

Another questionable draft pick was in 2003:   1) LeBron James  2) Darko Milicic  3) Carmelo Anthony  4) Chris Bosh   5)  Dwyane Wade 
one of these is not like the others
I'm a Pistons fan and I will say that even at the time I was livid they didn't take Carmelo. I was just distraught over that ... and it turned out even worse than I could've ever imagined. (Of course, I was also pretty excited when the Lions took Charles Rogers, so my track record as a talent evaluator is pretty spotty ...)
1/13/2011 10:07 AM
Posted by girt25 on 1/13/2011 10:07:00 AM (view original):
Posted by Iguana1 on 1/13/2011 9:36:00 AM (view original):
in a little known fact Kentucky actually retired Sam Bowie's redshirt.

Another questionable draft pick was in 2003:   1) LeBron James  2) Darko Milicic  3) Carmelo Anthony  4) Chris Bosh   5)  Dwyane Wade 
one of these is not like the others
I'm a Pistons fan and I will say that even at the time I was livid they didn't take Carmelo. I was just distraught over that ... and it turned out even worse than I could've ever imagined. (Of course, I was also pretty excited when the Lions took Charles Rogers, so my track record as a talent evaluator is pretty spotty ...)
There are those picks every year. Look at 2001. Kwame Brown #1 and Eddy Curry at #4, while Gilbert Arenas is taken in round 2. 

I think basketball drafts are unique in that it's only 2 rounds, and college basketball isn't so drastically different from nba.

Football is just a whole different beast. College teams run completely different systems from the NFL and the talent disparity between the good and mediocre teams is much greater than that of basketball. The fact that a great player cannot carry a team in football usually makes the player go lower in the draft, and become the value picks or great picks that we talk about today.
1/13/2011 10:49 AM
Posted by tianyi7886 on 1/13/2011 10:49:00 AM (view original):
Posted by girt25 on 1/13/2011 10:07:00 AM (view original):
Posted by Iguana1 on 1/13/2011 9:36:00 AM (view original):
in a little known fact Kentucky actually retired Sam Bowie's redshirt.

Another questionable draft pick was in 2003:   1) LeBron James  2) Darko Milicic  3) Carmelo Anthony  4) Chris Bosh   5)  Dwyane Wade 
one of these is not like the others
I'm a Pistons fan and I will say that even at the time I was livid they didn't take Carmelo. I was just distraught over that ... and it turned out even worse than I could've ever imagined. (Of course, I was also pretty excited when the Lions took Charles Rogers, so my track record as a talent evaluator is pretty spotty ...)
There are those picks every year. Look at 2001. Kwame Brown #1 and Eddy Curry at #4, while Gilbert Arenas is taken in round 2. 

I think basketball drafts are unique in that it's only 2 rounds, and college basketball isn't so drastically different from nba.

Football is just a whole different beast. College teams run completely different systems from the NFL and the talent disparity between the good and mediocre teams is much greater than that of basketball. The fact that a great player cannot carry a team in football usually makes the player go lower in the draft, and become the value picks or great picks that we talk about today.
NBA/college bball are definitely different, at least to the extent of most college football/nfl comparisons. why do college backups go high in NBA drafts (ex. daniel orton, marvin williams)? why do super-athletic players not necessarily dominate in college, but excel in the pros (ex. rudy gay, andre iguodala)? if the games were so similar, sherron collins and scottie reynolds would challenge for all-nba in a few years.

i'd attribute value picks in the NFL purely to a mix of deficiencies in scouting (which would take into account the differing college systems, so i dont totally disagree with you there) and late-round picks putting in the necessary work to succeed in the NFL.

football is a whole different beast, but not for the reasons you mentioned.
1/13/2011 12:32 PM
I played against Jimmer in high school.  The guy has heart and is a very gifted athlete.  Back then he was much more raw and could still do anything on the court.  We had two guards go to D-1 schools and he would still go for 25 point against us.  If he doesn't get drafted and see some playing time I will be surprised.
1/13/2011 1:36 PM
NBA/college all run similar systems. Man defense, zone defense, motion offense, triangle, how to run the fast break, how to break press, etc.

College transition for football to NFL is huge, in that college schemes are much simpler reads, with a pretty strong emphasis on a spread offense. NFL schemes have much different and harder reads, and every team has a different play book that a player needs to learn, memorize, etc. This is why a player can put up great stats in college in a spread offense, but be taken much lower in the draft than a player that comes from a pro-style offense with worse stats. Sure the physical stats from the Combines change things too, but alot of the times, a great college career is simply a result of the system. 


1/13/2011 1:38 PM
Posted by tianyi7886 on 1/13/2011 1:38:00 PM (view original):
NBA/college all run similar systems. Man defense, zone defense, motion offense, triangle, how to run the fast break, how to break press, etc.

College transition for football to NFL is huge, in that college schemes are much simpler reads, with a pretty strong emphasis on a spread offense. NFL schemes have much different and harder reads, and every team has a different play book that a player needs to learn, memorize, etc. This is why a player can put up great stats in college in a spread offense, but be taken much lower in the draft than a player that comes from a pro-style offense with worse stats. Sure the physical stats from the Combines change things too, but alot of the times, a great college career is simply a result of the system. 


there are a lot more positions in football than "quarterback", which is what your explanation most directly applies to.

you're correct in everything you've said, BUT you're ignoring the huge differences between college and NBA. namely, the importance of athleticism. athleticism is even more important for the basketball transition than the football transition. you can't definitively say that football is a tougher transition. also keep in mind how often NFL rookies excel and make the pro bowl compared to how often NBA rookies make the all-star game.
1/13/2011 1:55 PM
Posted by jetwildcat on 1/13/2011 1:55:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tianyi7886 on 1/13/2011 1:38:00 PM (view original):
NBA/college all run similar systems. Man defense, zone defense, motion offense, triangle, how to run the fast break, how to break press, etc.

College transition for football to NFL is huge, in that college schemes are much simpler reads, with a pretty strong emphasis on a spread offense. NFL schemes have much different and harder reads, and every team has a different play book that a player needs to learn, memorize, etc. This is why a player can put up great stats in college in a spread offense, but be taken much lower in the draft than a player that comes from a pro-style offense with worse stats. Sure the physical stats from the Combines change things too, but alot of the times, a great college career is simply a result of the system. 


there are a lot more positions in football than "quarterback", which is what your explanation most directly applies to.

you're correct in everything you've said, BUT you're ignoring the huge differences between college and NBA. namely, the importance of athleticism. athleticism is even more important for the basketball transition than the football transition. you can't definitively say that football is a tougher transition. also keep in mind how often NFL rookies excel and make the pro bowl compared to how often NBA rookies make the all-star game.
Not just QB. RB that runs in a pure man blocking scheme to run in a zone blocking scheme is a huge difference. WR needs to learn different routes, and especially timing with a new QB (which can take years to build up), Tackles and Guards need to learn different blocking schemes. And defense, even changing from 3-4 to a 4-3 defense for a nosetackle that have played 3-4 his whole life (Albert Haynesworth's gripe) is a huge transition. 

NFL rookies do indeed make the pro bowl, but we also have to look at the # of rookies in each NFL class. It's around 250 rookies in the NFL to 60 in the NBA. And then you account for there simply being more positions/players involved in a game in the NFL, it also makes sense to see more rookies making the pro bowl than the NBA. And for those NFL rookies that do indeed make the pro bowl, they are handed the key to the offense/defense. You don't rarely see a rookie in the NBA become the focal point of the offense in his first year. In fact, besides the top few picks, most NBA rookies don't even start in their first year, which makes an All-Star appearance all but impossible.

I'm not denying that transitioning from College to NBA is hard, but it's not like learning a new game, which is what some players in football experience. 
1/13/2011 2:10 PM
Posted by girt25 on 1/13/2011 7:19:00 AM (view original):
Posted by tianyi7886 on 1/13/2011 1:11:00 AM (view original):
Posted by zhawks on 1/12/2011 9:52:00 PM (view original):
My point is that for every good college player that might make it I can name more that don't even come close, nothing against Jimmer I just don't see him being anything more then a backup in the NBA with the right franchise. I'm sure he gets drafted I just don't see it.
I think this is true in almost every sport. Just by being physically gifted can make you good in college. You need to be gifted and have the desire and drive to be great in order to be good in NBA, or any other pro leagues. Even many of the college greats end up being busts in the pro game. 
Definitely true. Also, there are just different levels of being physically gifted ... there are a lot of guys who are "college fast" and/or "college big/strong" who are just pedestrian in those abilities compared to guys at the next level.

Glad I kept reading before I responded - I agree with dalt there. I think you can even use (likely) one of your favorite college players right now, Leuer. I think he is a great college player, but will that translate into the NBA? I'm not so sure yet. I guarantee he'll get drafted, prolly late 1st/ early 2nd. But at this point I'm not sure how his game translates to the NBA same thing with Jimmer. Can I see it happening? Sure. Can I see it not happening, yes as well.

That said Leuer plays better talent on a more consistent basis than Jimmer so that matters a bit too. Only time will tell how good they can (or cannot) be at the next level.

1/13/2011 3:36 PM
Posted by girt25 on 1/13/2011 10:07:00 AM (view original):
Posted by Iguana1 on 1/13/2011 9:36:00 AM (view original):
in a little known fact Kentucky actually retired Sam Bowie's redshirt.

Another questionable draft pick was in 2003:   1) LeBron James  2) Darko Milicic  3) Carmelo Anthony  4) Chris Bosh   5)  Dwyane Wade 
one of these is not like the others
I'm a Pistons fan and I will say that even at the time I was livid they didn't take Carmelo. I was just distraught over that ... and it turned out even worse than I could've ever imagined. (Of course, I was also pretty excited when the Lions took Charles Rogers, so my track record as a talent evaluator is pretty spotty ...)
Ouch. I always wondered about that pick as well (obv in the past, its pretty obvious now). Can anyone explain how Milicic is making $5m a year still? Oh that's right... David Kahn is an NBA GM...
1/13/2011 3:37 PM
◂ Prev 1234 Next ▸
OT- Have you experienced Jimmer Fredette yet?? Topic

Search Criteria

Terms of Use Customer Support Privacy Statement

© 1999-2026 WhatIfSports.com, Inc. All rights reserved. WhatIfSports is a trademark of WhatIfSports.com, Inc. SimLeague, SimMatchup and iSimNow are trademarks or registered trademarks of Electronic Arts, Inc. Used under license. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.