fwiw i quit the press in D3 6 months or so ago, it was just unbearable. i also quit it in one d2 world. i went from having 3 of 5 teams running fcp (and a fourth running a combo D) to just one d2 team running it. i just had a team that i thought was capable of winning it all, but their stamina wasn't GREAT (one starter in the 70s, two in the 80s, team average probably 79 with one walk on), so i kept getting burnt. after seening 4, maybe 5 games i lost where i thought i had no business losing (guessed i was 80% to win them), i ditched it, couldn't take it anymore.

so, if it's really back to awesome again, you need good stamina/good work ethic guys and probably some fingers crossed for it to be as good as it needs to be. maybe it's back? i know some teams that've had success with it, they've all had great defensive ratings..

Well, if other people aren't noticing anything, maybe I'm wrong. 

Posted by isack24 on 1/10/2011 12:39:00 PM (view original):
Well, if other people aren't noticing anything, maybe I'm wrong. 

Scroll to page 2 of the press vs. m2m thread and see what others are thinking. If given the choice to switch Drew from press to man and transfer their IQ, I would do it in a heartbeat. 

People figuring out how to use the press now after the changes.

Posted by arssanguinus on 1/10/2011 1:15:00 PM (view original):
People figuring out how to use the press now after the changes.

Could be that, too.

I do think that seble has made slight unannounced tweaks that lessen the initial impact of the "press killing."  Like I said, just a gut feel.

Doesn't change the fact that I think, and have always thought, the press should be eliminated as a base defense.

I actually still feel like I'm beating press teams a bit more easily than I should be...

Posted by isack24 on 1/10/2011 1:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by arssanguinus on 1/10/2011 1:15:00 PM (view original):
People figuring out how to use the press now after the changes.

Could be that, too.

I do think that seble has made slight unannounced tweaks that lessen the initial impact of the "press killing."  Like I said, just a gut feel.

Doesn't change the fact that I think, and have always thought, the press should be eliminated as a base defense.

i actually don't think seble has made changes outside of the times when he has announced them. his continuous tweaking of fatigue really threw the press for a roller coaster - in the beginning that was one of two major factors that made the press unplayable. restoring the fatigue situation to a more moderate one did worlds to bring the press back. there is also one other change in the last 6 months that i feel really helped the press out quite a bit... i bet you can find it if you scan the release notes 

I'm sure this:

• changed the performance hit from fatigue so that it won't be as linear, but instead performance will decrease more rapidly as a player gets tired

didn't hurt press teams.

But he also says something like "made minor logic tweaks."  I'd be interested to know what those were.  I've noticed the press getting stronger over the past few seasons. 

Like I said, though, and no one has addressed, I think recruit generation has helped press at D3.  Less elite bh/pass PGs = less guys capable of not turning the ball over.

I might be reading that tweak wrong, now that I look at it again.  Is that saying it's the same as it was for some period of time and then drops off the table, or is it saying that there impact is lessened early in the game until you get to a point where it falls off?

Reducing teh single-game variance overall probably helps the press, I would think.

Posted by isack24 on 1/10/2011 2:03:00 PM (view original):
I'm sure this:

• changed the performance hit from fatigue so that it won't be as linear, but instead performance will decrease more rapidly as a player gets tired

didn't hurt press teams.

But he also says something like "made minor logic tweaks."  I'd be interested to know what those were.  I've noticed the press getting stronger over the past few seasons. 

Like I said, though, and no one has addressed, I think recruit generation has helped press at D3.  Less elite bh/pass PGs = less guys capable of not turning the ball over.

Diff between fresh and fairly fresh is minimal, difference between fairly fresh and tiring is a little bigger, then the diff between tiring and tired is big, while the diff between tired and very tired is huge. 

Or put it in mathematical terms, fresh plays at 100%, fairly fresh say 90%, tiring at 75%, tired at 50%, and very tired at 15% of optimal performance. 

isack, I think you came into this thread with the mindset that the press is too powerful. I think you are seeing some press teams do well simply because their ath/spd is head and shoulders above everyone else.

Can we agree that the press has more variance/variability in game to game results, so it's easier for you to upset better teams and also a little easier for teams that are slightly worse than you to upset you? I think this is true if you look at the press logically, in that you can lose easily if your key players fouls out (press fouls more) and this certainly happens more frequently for the press, meanwhile, press teams can beat better teams a little bit more easily because turnovers are game changers. If we agree that the press has higher variance in its results, ask yourself, if you have the undisputed #1 team in the game and is superior than everyone else in every category, do you want a high variance or low variance? 

After answering the variance question, then ask yourself if you would prefer to run press or man?

Posted by isack24 on 1/10/2011 2:15:00 PM (view original):
Reducing teh single-game variance overall probably helps the press, I would think.

especially the part about reducing in-game variance of FOULS :)

Posted by tianyi7886 on 1/10/2011 2:21:00 PM (view original):
isack, I think you came into this thread with the mindset that the press is too powerful. I think you are seeing some press teams do well simply because their ath/spd is head and shoulders above everyone else.

Can we agree that the press has more variance/variability in game to game results, so it's easier for you to upset better teams and also a little easier for teams that are slightly worse than you to upset you? I think this is true if you look at the press logically, in that you can lose easily if your key players fouls out (press fouls more) and this certainly happens more frequently for the press, meanwhile, press teams can beat better teams a little bit more easily because turnovers are game changers. If we agree that the press has higher variance in its results, ask yourself, if you have the undisputed #1 team in the game and is superior than everyone else in every category, do you want a high variance or low variance? 

After answering the variance question, then ask yourself if you would prefer to run press or man?

I get the point you're making, but it's really applicable to D3, which is what I'm focusing on.  You can't find guys that are 100 across the board like you could in D1 pre-recruit generation change.

Undoubtedly, if I was the best in every ratings category, I would want to play man.  But, because I don't think that's possible in D3, and I think press teams are superior in guard ath/ big spd/overall sta and I'm often better (not this year) in most or all other categories, my question would be, is it too easy to win using press and simply having a lot of ath/spd without any other actual talents? 

I would say "yes" from my experience, even after seble changed things, but apparently others disagree, and that's fine.

Posted by coach_billyg on 1/10/2011 2:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by isack24 on 1/10/2011 2:15:00 PM (view original):
Reducing teh single-game variance overall probably helps the press, I would think.

especially the part about reducing in-game variance of FOULS :)

Hmm, kind of glossed over that, but yes, that would certainly have a large effect.