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smoelheim
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Posted by MikeT23 on 1/21/2011 4:17:00 PM (view original):
Posted by smoelheim on 1/21/2011 4:09:00 PM (view original):
Amazing how catchers and DHs are the only ones who ever have this kind of durability.

I have yet to see a superstud SS who can only play 25 games per season.
Not amazing if you think about it.

DUR is only there so we don't play guys 162 games.   It's not unusual for a SS to play 150 games a season.    But catchers don't.     If the master programming plan is for a guy to only be a defensive or platoon catcher, despite full-time catcher ratings, the only way to make that happen is to zap his durability.   Same thing applies to low inning RP.   Some of the best pitchers in HBD at the 45 IP a year guys. 
The original player linked is a stud offensively and very good defensively.

Your point is taken about a "specialist" playing a limited number of games... but this is a very well-rounded player. Well-rounded players do not only play 25 games per season in the Majors. Guys who are phenomenal defensively/awful offensively or vice versa get reduced playing time.

I stand by my statement that I have yet to see a stud SS, with superior offensive AND defensive numbers, who can only play 25 games per season.
1/21/2011 5:59 PM
auburnfan
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Posted by smoelheim on 1/21/2011 5:59:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/21/2011 4:17:00 PM (view original):
Posted by smoelheim on 1/21/2011 4:09:00 PM (view original):
Amazing how catchers and DHs are the only ones who ever have this kind of durability.

I have yet to see a superstud SS who can only play 25 games per season.
Not amazing if you think about it.

DUR is only there so we don't play guys 162 games.   It's not unusual for a SS to play 150 games a season.    But catchers don't.     If the master programming plan is for a guy to only be a defensive or platoon catcher, despite full-time catcher ratings, the only way to make that happen is to zap his durability.   Same thing applies to low inning RP.   Some of the best pitchers in HBD at the 45 IP a year guys. 
The original player linked is a stud offensively and very good defensively.

Your point is taken about a "specialist" playing a limited number of games... but this is a very well-rounded player. Well-rounded players do not only play 25 games per season in the Majors. Guys who are phenomenal defensively/awful offensively or vice versa get reduced playing time.

I stand by my statement that I have yet to see a stud SS, with superior offensive AND defensive numbers, who can only play 25 games per season.
Rocco Baldelli came pretty close though!
1/22/2011 2:40 AM
tecwrg
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Rocco was not a shortstop, and hardly considered a "stud".
1/22/2011 7:20 AM
deathinahole
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Think of it this way;

In real life, there is not a player with a 19 DUR hanging above his head telling a GM or manager that if you play this guy 500AB, he's going to get destroyed. Instead, they're going to try to play him 500AB, he'll get destroyed, and the public laments what could have been if he hadn't been so fragile.

Instead, you have that number hanging above his head so you know that you can only play him 150AB, and maybe get him to do that for 15 seasons.

Really, it's a damn shame that Fidrych didn't have a 9 above his head, or he'd still be throwing 45 innings a year.
1/22/2011 9:17 AM
MikeT23
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Posted by smoelheim on 1/21/2011 5:59:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/21/2011 4:17:00 PM (view original):
Posted by smoelheim on 1/21/2011 4:09:00 PM (view original):
Amazing how catchers and DHs are the only ones who ever have this kind of durability.

I have yet to see a superstud SS who can only play 25 games per season.
Not amazing if you think about it.

DUR is only there so we don't play guys 162 games.   It's not unusual for a SS to play 150 games a season.    But catchers don't.     If the master programming plan is for a guy to only be a defensive or platoon catcher, despite full-time catcher ratings, the only way to make that happen is to zap his durability.   Same thing applies to low inning RP.   Some of the best pitchers in HBD at the 45 IP a year guys. 
The original player linked is a stud offensively and very good defensively.

Your point is taken about a "specialist" playing a limited number of games... but this is a very well-rounded player. Well-rounded players do not only play 25 games per season in the Majors. Guys who are phenomenal defensively/awful offensively or vice versa get reduced playing time.

I stand by my statement that I have yet to see a stud SS, with superior offensive AND defensive numbers, who can only play 25 games per season.
I'll assume you missed this part of my post:

"If the master programming plan is for a guy to only be a defensive or platoon catcher, despite full-time catcher ratings, the only way to make that happen is to zap his durability."
1/22/2011 3:41 PM
taz21
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Posted by FW_Kekionga on 1/21/2011 4:49:00 PM (view original):
Posted by taz21 on 1/21/2011 4:47:00 PM (view original):
here's a similar guy I have in one of my worlds:

http://whatifsports.com/HBD/Pages/Popups/PlayerProfile.aspx?pid=1804527

Actually very similar, though your guy, if he reached his projections would have a better stick.

This guy is good for about 160 at bats a year, the the playoffs.

He got DiTR status in season 5 I believe, but you can probably compare progress as they both have 19 durability.

That's not bad development at all.  What does he cost in salary per year?  Does he ever get above the minimum?

He's asking for $365k or there abouts in arb (2nd time I believe) this offseason.  I don't suspect he'll ever ask for much as his overall is so low.

1/24/2011 3:53 PM
smoelheim
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Then why doesn't "the master programming plan" apply to positions other than catcher? Show me this same player at SS.
1/24/2011 3:55 PM
MikeT23
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Really?    Pick a MLB team.  Any team.
1/24/2011 4:02 PM
MikeT23
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OK, I got tired of waiting on you.   I randomly picked the Dodgers.   4 catchers.  3 with 44, 25, 21 games played.   I'll pick another.

1/24/2011 4:06 PM
MikeT23
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Staying west.  AZ.  4 again.  3 with 65, 34, 4.
SD-tricky one.   Only 2.  95-85
SF-3.  2 at 61, 56.
Col-3.  2 at 61, 6.

Catcher is unique in that the top C only play 120-130 games.   Their back-ups get into only a few games regardless of their health.    It's not that way with other positions.  Nature of the game.
1/24/2011 4:18 PM
MikeT23
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Just checked my HBD teams.   My pattern follows the MLB way.   I'll have 1 guy who gets 90-100 starts and another with 50-70.  And I usually have a 3rd/4th who get into 10-15 games.
1/24/2011 4:29 PM
smoelheim
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How many of those MLB "backups" hit .350, average 1 HR every 10-15 ABs and are considered superior defensive catchers?
1/25/2011 2:58 PM
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smoelheim
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I asked a simple question .Why do you refuse to answer it?

How many of those MLB "backups" hit .350, average 1 HR every 10-15 ABs and are considered superior defensive catchers?

1/25/2011 4:10 PM
MikeT23
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I'll refer back to this:
DUR is only there so we don't play guys 162 games.   It's not unusual for a SS to play 150 games a season.    But catchers don't.     If the master programming plan is for a guy to only be a defensive or platoon catcher, despite full-time catcher ratings, the only way to make that happen is to zap his durability.   Same thing applies to low inning RP.   Some of the best pitchers in HBD at the 45 IP a year guys. 

Now, I'll ask this again:
So, what's your argument?  That good HBD players should never be limited by durability?  I'm assuming my examples have convinced you that MLB teams do not employ catchers who play 162.   I'm assuming you agree that most teams have a 100 game catcher, a 50 game catcher and a 20 game catcher(or some reasonable facsimile thereof).

Are you troubled because WifS produced a catcher who could be a full-time except for his durability?   Do you have the same problem with the RP who can only throw 40 really good innings?   Or are you OK with that because he's a relief pitcher?

Now, if you want me to answer your silly question, here are two examples of BL players who didn't get full-time AB despite some pretty good numbers:
Kevin Maas '90:  21 homers in 254 AB
Shane Spencer '98:  67 AB with an OPS of 1.321

That's just two Yankees off the top of my head.   It happens.   Players play well but still don't get full-time gigs.

1/25/2011 4:20 PM
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