well, I had thought I was getting towards respectable after three or four seasons. . but that all seems to have fallen apart this season, so I guess its back to the drawing board as what I thought worked obviously doesn't.

I was completely clueless my first two seasons and finally figured out how to be a good recruiter  in my 3rd season.  I went to the final four with my first recruiting class after I figured out what I was doing, haven't been back since...I guess I'm getting worse.

3 seasons. Also, I don't see the problem with going to div II before div III. IMO, Div II is where you have more chance to learn. Its the same but you get more money for due overs/scouting. I've won multiple titles and I can safely say I can not compete in div III anymore with FSS.

im sttill lost

My first recruiting class (8-man class) was actually decent by pure, dumb luck.  There were a number of those guys I wouldn't even look at now, but they got me to an RPI of 30 by their senior year.  Not great, but not awful.  I'm still pretty new at this and not all that good.

I added on a ton of teams after 1 full season and was able to experiment more frequently with O/D, settings, etc.  Many of the teams I acquired were pretty good so that helped.  I caught on rather quickly (not sure of the time frame) but I will always remember my first class of recruits at Edgewood.  I bet they still hold school records ;)

I've forgotten how to be good. Though.... it does seem my overall ineptitude was magnified when switching from mot/man to tri/zon.

But for a newbie I'd say 2 things:
1) Lose your preconceived notions fast, and
2) Ignore #1 and start with common sense. (Guards that handle the ball -bigs that rebound, etc.)

I had some very successful seasons long before I knew what the hell I was doing.  It honestly took me about 10 season before I figured out how little I knew.  Even today, almost 50 seasons and a D1 NT title later, I'm still learning a decent amount every year.  The place I really cut my teeth was D2.  I started to really understand recruiting and gameplanning a lot better.  And I was able to do it with good talent against other good coaches.

Edit to say that in D3, I either had crap talent or was playing against not great coaches.  Its hard to learn in situations where its a massive mismatch.

Personally, I think D2 is a better place to learn to recruit than D3 ... the cash at D3 is too tight to use FSS effectively there.

I know, it is a strategy to pick which states you want to get FSS for and if you get FSS later on it is cheaper and all of that takes skill, but I just fond D2 more enjoyable than D3.

Before I was respectable??  I had to move to a new city and have a sex change

I was in the inaugural seasons of Rupp, Smith, and Iba.  The game was so different then that there were some things you didn't have to figure out.  For example, there was no distro, and you set up a practice plan for the whole team instead of for individual players.  So if you devoted ten minutes to BH to help your guards, you had to do it knowing that it meant your big men would also be practicing BH for ten minutes.

I had success right away, but I'm not really sure how.  I had no idea what I was doing in recruiting.  My first two classes, I threw away almost all my cash on unattainable players (sure, the #1 D1 PG in the country is going to come and play at a D3 school because he's only 30 miles away!) - then only signed a player or two to each team and in several cases had to promise starting positions to do it.

I think the only reason I did well right away was that I quickly figured out that ATH and SPD were hugely important.  And even that was sort of coincidental - I had a SF on my first team who had nothing much going for him except for off-the-charts ATH and SPD (at least by D3 standards), and after watching him shoot 55% or 60% on a high volume of shots, and with other skills that were below average, it wasn't tough to figure out what was going on.  (I still remember his name, it was Norman Porter, because I figure he is the single biggest reason for my reasonable level of HD success.)  I think a lot of other coaches hadn't figured out the importance of those traits at that time, and that gave me a big edge in recruiting guys who would go on to be successful players.

I hope you stick with the game.  There is plenty of good advice in this thread, and there are plenty of people who are willing to answer questions.  Don't be afraid to experiment, and be as observant as possible about the results.  Eventually you'll get it figured out, and you'll be one of the coaches answering questions - but never stop asking them, no matter how good you get at the game.

I'm in the same world / division as you ethan and I would suggest you stick it out. Your in fertile recruiting grounds (I know because I get guys in TX most seasons) so it shouldn't take very long to compete. As for me, I've had around eleven teams and it takes me around 5-7 seasons to get them to a NT level. I start competing around season 3-4 and earlier if I acquire a decent team. I've only gone to one team when it wasn't a complete rebuild as I like to build a team and that has nothing and make them good. I've never won a championship but I can get teams in the dance at all levels. If you want any advice you can site mail me. Others in our world that have had success and who have already posted include alblack and sol_phenom. Those guys could help as well. And like someone else said look at how others recruit to get an idea of what they like. You would have to tame what you go after but you should become the best D prestige school doing that and that will lead you to the best C prestige school.....you get the idea.

Jbob, I think my recruiting struggles are equal parts (a) Newbie ignorance and (b) low prestige.  In the first 2 seasons I shotgunned and ended up signing crappy players in the hopes they would improve.  This year targeted a couple of pull downs and got myself into a corner where I doubt I can afford to recruit someone else if they don't commit. 

I read on this board that a lot of D1 coaches typically recruit "light", eg, not fill all their scholarships in order to have a little more budget for fewer guys.  I don't know how wise that is, but given the issues I've faced I'm starting to think it's a good approach and it took me 3 seasons just to have that one little light bulb go off.

Davis: You've addressed one question I've wanted to ask already - I've changed my philosophy and have almost ignored LP/PER, instead focusing on targets with high ATH/SPD and DEF. (Haven't gotten those guys on the roster yet, but that's where I want to go).   I wasn't sure how to set up play distro for a good athlete with low offensive ratings - are you saying that they will still score a lot with their high ATH/SPD but, say, a PER of 21?

Thanks for the advice, everyone.  I've re-read the thread a few times already and I'm taking it all to heart.  Last night I was getting disappointing messages from my recruits and I started to feel disheartened.  This morning a couple of them changed their minds and the sun came up after all :)

I had 1 clueless season at Grinnell, then changed jobs in D3 and took over a team in a populated conference.  They taught be a lot and my 3rd recruiting class put Lebanon Valley in Allen on a path to a very strong showing.  Learning in D3 is really useful, because it allows you to see how the game works with a lot of advantages (inexperienced opponents, C- prestige floor, prestige and NT/PT money don't matter much, etc)

After that I would say it took me 2 seasons to 'get it' in D2 and then again in D1.  Not that I am great or anything, but I know what I want to do, I just can't always pull it off.

Ok, now in all honesty, in my 3rd season at D2 *** U in Tark did I think I had a good grasp of what was going on.  Prior to that, I had never coached any team/school for more than one season and in my first 2 seasons at Armstrong Atlantic State, I was rather unfamiliar with the pulldown process, but by my 3rd season I started to get the hang of things, felt like I knew how to recruit, and what to do and how to win, and perhaps most importantly, how I like/want to play the game.  With that said, I'm still a very conservative player/recruiter/game planner.  I didn't really start game planning til after that awful Montevallo loss lol

Conversely, I had a friend that used to play, and he had a "go big or go home" strategy (which in the right circumstances is admirable) but it never worked and he never got the hang of the game because he was always shooting way too high for D1 recruits that he was never going to get (he was at an at best mediocre D2).  I told him countless times that he was doing this, but he refused to adapt and understand the game, thus I think it left a bit of a bad taste in his mouth...I wish he still played actually, but finances are tight and he's kind of done with WIS, so I get it.