C'mon guys, it happens all the time in real life:

http://espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=310840194

In UK vs. OSU, UK only had 6 players play more than 2 minutes and OSU only had 5 over 5 minutes.

This kind of stuff happens plenty in real life (although maybe not this extreme).  Teams just don't go 9 or 10 deep in real life.  A lot of teams go 6 or 7.

Whether it makes sense in HD is another issue.  I'm not as appalled as some.

Hmm...maybe I should have tried this strategy against you, isack, in our CT game. Might have worked better than the crappy gameplan I ended up going with...

Harvard played only 6 guys this season and won 23 games. Most D-I teams start with a 9 or 10 man rotation then "shorten the bench" throughout the season.

Posted by isack24 on 4/1/2011 3:47:00 PM (view original):
C'mon guys, it happens all the time in real life:

http://espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=310840194

In UK vs. OSU, UK only had 6 players play more than 2 minutes and OSU only had 5 over 5 minutes.

This kind of stuff happens plenty in real life (although maybe not this extreme).  Teams just don't go 9 or 10 deep in real life.  A lot of teams go 6 or 7.

Whether it makes sense in HD is another issue.  I'm not as appalled as some.

That's one game where everything is on the line. This is a whole season:

http://whatifsports.com/hd/TeamProfile/Stats.aspx?tid=14673

Is this team a ghost ship?  Looks like he recruited 3-4 seasons ago and then just let it run. 

Posted by tianyi7886 on 4/1/2011 4:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by isack24 on 4/1/2011 3:47:00 PM (view original):
C'mon guys, it happens all the time in real life:

http://espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=310840194

In UK vs. OSU, UK only had 6 players play more than 2 minutes and OSU only had 5 over 5 minutes.

This kind of stuff happens plenty in real life (although maybe not this extreme).  Teams just don't go 9 or 10 deep in real life.  A lot of teams go 6 or 7.

Whether it makes sense in HD is another issue.  I'm not as appalled as some.

That's one game where everything is on the line. This is a whole season:

http://whatifsports.com/hd/TeamProfile/Stats.aspx?tid=14673

Rounding up, OSU had five guys average 30+ minutes/game in the Big Ten and only seven over 4.1 (and Deshaun Thomas didn't get that much run against real teams).

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/stats/_/id/194/sort/avgMinutes/ohio-state-buckeyes

Wisconsin had five guys average 25+ in BT play and only seven over 10.

http://www.uwbadgers.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/2010-2011/teamcume.html#TEAM.OCF

Michigan only played 7 guys over 5.8mpg in the BT.

http://www.mgoblue.com/auto_pdf/p_hotos/s_chools/mich/sports/m-baskbl/auto_pdf/cumulative-stats

Those were the first three teams I looked at.

Posted by isack24 on 4/1/2011 4:20:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tianyi7886 on 4/1/2011 4:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by isack24 on 4/1/2011 3:47:00 PM (view original):
C'mon guys, it happens all the time in real life:

http://espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=310840194

In UK vs. OSU, UK only had 6 players play more than 2 minutes and OSU only had 5 over 5 minutes.

This kind of stuff happens plenty in real life (although maybe not this extreme).  Teams just don't go 9 or 10 deep in real life.  A lot of teams go 6 or 7.

Whether it makes sense in HD is another issue.  I'm not as appalled as some.

That's one game where everything is on the line. This is a whole season:

http://whatifsports.com/hd/TeamProfile/Stats.aspx?tid=14673

Rounding up, OSU had five guys average 30+ minutes/game in the Big Ten and only seven over 4.1 (and Deshaun Thomas didn't get that much run against real teams).

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/stats/_/id/194/sort/avgMinutes/ohio-state-buckeyes

Wisconsin had five guys average 25+ in BT play and only seven over 10.

http://www.uwbadgers.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/2010-2011/teamcume.html#TEAM.OCF

Michigan only played 7 guys over 5.8mpg in the BT.

http://www.mgoblue.com/auto_pdf/p_hotos/s_chools/mich/sports/m-baskbl/auto_pdf/cumulative-stats

Those were the first three teams I looked at.

Ok...this team has 6 players essentially play the entire game, with no one else coming in. Only instance of the other 6 players coming in is when the starting 6 foul out or in serious foul trouble. How is this comparable to those examples, with the starters playing around 30mpg with 2 to 3 bench players getting around 15mpg?

And lets not forget 2 of those players with 30+mpg have 70 stamina. Stamina at this point seems irrelevant under this engine. 

The highest rated player in DI Allen is averaging 20 MPG. in real life, he'd be averaging 35 minutes per game, easy.

I'm not sure what real life players' stamina is, so I don't really know how to respond to the last statement.

As for the comparison, it's plenty valid. 

Let's compare:

Summers: 38.1
Moore: 36.9
Campbell: 33.9
Stanford 32.2
Shank 31.9
Mathews: 19.8

Starters average 173 minutes per game

OSU (in BT play) -- http://www.ohiostatebuckeyes.com/fls/17300/stats/mbasketball/2010-11/teamcume.htm#TEAM.OCF
Diebler: 37.7
Sullinger: 33.8
Lighty: 33.8
Buford: 33.7
Craft: 31.3
Lauderdale: 14.3
Thomas: 11.8

Top 5 average 170.3 minutes per game.

On average, there's a 2.7mpg difference between the top five players. 

It happens in real life.  And it happened this season, with arguably the best team in the country.

Posted by isack24 on 4/1/2011 4:53:00 PM (view original):
I'm not sure what real life players' stamina is, so I don't really know how to respond to the last statement.

As for the comparison, it's plenty valid. 

Let's compare:

Summers: 38.1
Moore: 36.9
Campbell: 33.9
Stanford 32.2
Shank 31.9
Mathews: 19.8

Starters average 173 minutes per game

OSU (in BT play) -- http://www.ohiostatebuckeyes.com/fls/17300/stats/mbasketball/2010-11/teamcume.htm#TEAM.OCF
Diebler: 37.7
Sullinger: 33.8
Lighty: 33.8
Buford: 33.7
Craft: 31.3
Lauderdale: 14.3
Thomas: 11.8

Top 5 average 170.3 minutes per game.

On average, there's a 2.7mpg difference between the top five players. 

It happens in real life.  And it happened this season, with arguably the best team in the country.

So you are saying there is nothing wrong with this engine. Teams should be able to run 6 players entire game and never see very tired, despite mediocre stamina?

And your point about the best team in the country is a good one. Only the best players in this game with close to 100 stamina should be able to run 30+mpg and still be effective, not some dude with 70 stamina (which is low, look at the math below).

Regarding real life stamina, let's do some simple mathematical comparison. 

As you said, Ohio State is arguably the best team in the country, so they are athletic and well conditioned? So in terms of doing sprints, miles, and other aerobic conditioning, they are probably in the top 5% in college basketball? If not top 5, at least top 10%, or top 20%?

Phelan D3, the top 25 team stamina is from 80-84. The top 25 player stamina range from 97-100, Top 25 SR 96-100, Top 25 JR 93-99, Top 25 So 89-94, Top 25 Fr, 87-91.

There are at least 300 D3 recruits over 76 stamina; the C and PG in question are at 73 and 70 stamina respectively.

I think two things are pretty clear.

Ohio State can run 5 guys out at 30+mpg because they have 5 well conditioned athletes, who are probably the 5-10% in college basketball, with stamina somewhere around the 95-100 range in HD (player distribution is skewed left for stamina, in HD, so the top 10% is closer to 100 rather than to 0).

Meanwhile, here we have 2 players with 70 stamina, who don't even come close to top 100 stamina in D3, or come close to the Top 300 stamina for recruits, and they are playing at a 30mpg clip effectively?

This is like saying hey look, Jon Diebler played 37mpg, therefore I can too (even though I'm a poor athlete). 

I think your premise - that OSU's guys are in the top 5%-10% in conditioning in the country - is flawed.  I don't think you have any basis for that. 

"This is like saying hey look, Jon Diebler played 37mpg, therefore I can too (even though I'm a poor athlete). "

It's not at all saying that.  Diebler is one thing, but there are 100 kids in the country averaging over 35 mpg: http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/stats/minutes_avg?season=2010-2011.  Neither of us has heard of most of them.  I think you're using "talented" and "well-conditioned" synonymously when I don't think they are synonyms.  Fact is, kids in real life can play effectively a lot longer than kids in HD.  That's just a fact.

As for there being a flaw, sure, maybe it's a little off.  Maybe not.  The question isn't whether it mimics real life - it doesn't, and it doesn't in the opposite way that you're thinking - the question is what is best for HD?  To that, reasonable minds can disagree, but I don't see why it's so bad to roll out a lineup of seven good players in HD.  And yes, I understand the problems that creates in D1, but there are fixes for that (increasing the penalty of more than two walk ons being one).

Would you say Diebler is top 30% of in NCAA, or maybe even top 50%? I think somewhere along top 20% is the bare minmum; otherwise, he wouldn't be playing for Ohio State. The 2 players for this D3 team with 70 Stamina doesn't even rack up against the top 300 D3 recruits, and are probably not even close to the T100 stamina in D3 (and if I'm pretty sure they are not even in the top 50% in terms of stamina).

I don't have a problem with rolling out 6 or 7 good HD players for 30+ mpg; I have a problem when their stamina are below avg and playing 30 mpg w/o any significant dropoff. 

Fair enough. Good point.

there used to be a significant dropoff, and people ******* and it was nerfed...

This year I cherry picked a team in their division. I was 23-1, rated 550+ Nationally ranked  with wins over 2 top ten teams. I lost to Case Western by 15 plus in our schedule, and by more than ten in our CT. The coach never said a word or responded to anything on our CC.  I don't know what their system is, but it works.