"Or is that all a bunch of hooey and I should pretty much treat it as a second-tier rating for pitchers?"

This one.  As best as I can tell, velocity only plays a role once an out has been determined to have occurred, and then converts other outs into strikeouts.  Converting other outs into strikeouts has been shown to have a rather minimal effect on overall performance, which the loss of productive outs being almost entirely (but not entirely) balanced by the loss of double plays.

That has the ring of truth to it dedelman. I've heard that they apply the park effects in a similar way, with dubs, trips & HRs simply modifying what happens when the sim has determined there has been a base hit. It wouldn't surprise me if they applied that approach to other situations.

Just want to confirm this - you're saying there's basically no benefit to having pitchers with high velocity?  Is this well known, or just your opinion?

Opinion.   I don't put a lot of weight on velocity but, if I have a poor D(which I seldom do), I like a strikeout.   And, if it's late in the game, I prefer a strikeout. 

Posted by burnsy483 on 10/12/2011 12:07:00 PM (view original):
Just want to confirm this - you're saying there's basically no benefit to having pitchers with high velocity?  Is this well known, or just your opinion?

My opinion, but also that of many other veteran players who have posted on these boards.

Boogerlips - Thanks for including the decision tree! I posted a separate question there.

Posted by burnsy483 on 10/12/2011 12:07:00 PM (view original):
Just want to confirm this - you're saying there's basically no benefit to having pitchers with high velocity?  Is this well known, or just your opinion?

I like velocity.

I think think there is always value in (almost) any rating that other owners don't care about. Everybody knows that splits are important so there is a huge premium on pitchers with high splits, as well there should be. But in terms of getting a "steal" such as a 2M IFA, 2nd-round pick or cheap FA, you have to start looking at the other ratings and how they can fit together to make an effective player.

From my experience of asking many guys that have played HBD for years, I don't think velocity matters much. If a pitchers best pitch is a 90 but that pitch is a changeup or knuckleball then the velocity on that pitch won't be in the 80s or higher it may be in the 40s. So I think it all depends on his best pitches.

If his best pitch is a fastball but his velocity is 40 then that won't be a very good fastball.

Posted by ginobili04 on 10/14/2011 10:50:00 AM (view original):
From my experience of asking many guys that have played HBD for years, I don't think velocity matters much. If a pitchers best pitch is a 90 but that pitch is a changeup or knuckleball then the velocity on that pitch won't be in the 80s or higher it may be in the 40s. So I think it all depends on his best pitches.

If his best pitch is a fastball but his velocity is 40 then that won't be a very good fastball.

The names of the pitches are window dressing.  The first pitch listed in his "out" pitch, but that's the only thing I've read in regards to anything other than the actual rating having any significance.

Posted by jtrinsey on 10/13/2011 10:26:00 AM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 10/12/2011 12:07:00 PM (view original):
Just want to confirm this - you're saying there's basically no benefit to having pitchers with high velocity?  Is this well known, or just your opinion?

I like velocity.

I think think there is always value in (almost) any rating that other owners don't care about. Everybody knows that splits are important so there is a huge premium on pitchers with high splits, as well there should be. But in terms of getting a "steal" such as a 2M IFA, 2nd-round pick or cheap FA, you have to start looking at the other ratings and how they can fit together to make an effective player.

+1

It's not about what's most important, it's about where the value is.  When I can't get involved in the bidding on the top FA pitchers, I often look at the pitchers with high velocity and gb with 'ok' splits, control, and pitches.

Posted by mhulshult on 10/14/2011 10:54:00 AM (view original):

Posted by ginobili04 on 10/14/2011 10:50:00 AM (view original):
From my experience of asking many guys that have played HBD for years, I don't think velocity matters much. If a pitchers best pitch is a 90 but that pitch is a changeup or knuckleball then the velocity on that pitch won't be in the 80s or higher it may be in the 40s. So I think it all depends on his best pitches.

If his best pitch is a fastball but his velocity is 40 then that won't be a very good fastball.

The names of the pitches are window dressing.  The first pitch listed in his "out" pitch, but that's the only thing I've read in regards to anything other than the actual rating having any significance.

This is a "forum fact" - and one I happen to believe - but Dev chats have gone both ways on whether it is accurate or not.

This may be what Trinsey and Ford are talking about -- or maybe not. Hardball Dynasty – Fantasy Baseball Sim Games - Player Profile: Rudy Brand is not much of a pitcher, but he continues to over-perform his ratings. I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop. Maybe Velocity acts as a modifier that improves all the pitches a bit; that's the only way I can explain it, aside from persistent luck.

Posted by mmiller989 on 10/17/2011 8:04:00 PM (view original):
This may be what Trinsey and Ford are talking about -- or maybe not. Hardball Dynasty – Fantasy Baseball Sim Games - Player Profile: Rudy Brand is not much of a pitcher, but he continues to over-perform his ratings. I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop. Maybe Velocity acts as a modifier that improves all the pitches a bit; that's the only way I can explain it, aside from persistent luck.

It's still a small-ish sample size, and in any case an average guy pitching in SF in the NL of Yaz over the last two seasons would have an ERA of about 4.1, so at 4.35 he's only been a little better than the 4.6 or so I would have projected for him under those circumstances. 

Dedelman - you're scaring me man! It's as if you are thinking at a whole other level than I am. So you are taking into account:  the field, the league, the world, # of years/IPs, and calculating his ERA to the tenth? And I actually believe you! You just blew any chance of my vounteering to be in the same division as you!  LOL!