Posted by bow2dacowz on 5/2/2011 1:02:00 AM (view original):
if you dont want to celebrate his being dead, or you think we need to move on to more important issues in society....

then change your perspective on it and instead you can celebrate that the spouses, parents, children, and friends of everyone this man killed, injured, or otherwise impacted can finally experience SOME sense of justice for their loss, even if it's only a little.

Oh, I think Bin Laden's death is something to be celebrated. (As is, of course, the closure/justice for the victims and their families.) I'm merely talking about how some people are choosing to celebrate, and that it makes me uneasy. To each their own, I'm just saying that method of celebration doesn't sit well with me.

I think there are other forms of justice.  I'm opposed to capital punishment as well.  I don't buy the argument that "an eye for an eye" is justice.  I don't think killing anyone is ever just; I think it violates the very definition of the word just.  In this case at least we know with all but complete certitude that the victim was guilty.  Regardless, if we do the same thing we call him a terrible person for doing, how are we making the world a better place?  I don't think "don't kill people or we'll kill you" is the kind of message that leads to more peace in the world.

Posted by dahsdebater on 5/2/2011 1:11:00 AM (view original):
I think there are other forms of justice.  I'm opposed to capital punishment as well.  I don't buy the argument that "an eye for an eye" is justice.  I don't think killing anyone is ever just; I think it violates the very definition of the word just.  In this case at least we know with all but complete certitude that the victim was guilty.  Regardless, if we do the same thing we call him a terrible person for doing, how are we making the world a better place?  I don't think "don't kill people or we'll kill you" is the kind of message that leads to more peace in the world.

Well, I think that may be where we diverge.

As a general rule, I'd agree with you. But this was a completely different, special place -- a man who masterminded the worst attack of all time against this country, a man at the helm of a horrible terrorist organization, a man who would strike out again against both the US and other people/nations whenever and however he could. If you don't think killing him help makes the world a better place, then we'll have to agree to disagree.

I think it's fairly obvious to most objective observers that the US government had to go after Bin Laden.  No debate there.  The reality is that he has overseen the killing thousands of innocent individuals around the world who were helpless to defend themselves against his plans.  Including the teenagers he and his followers trained as suicide bombers.  But I don't think that makes it just, and I don't think that makes it something that anyone should celebrate.  We can be glad it's done.  But we should still recognize that a necessary evil is still an evil, and it's not something to be inherently happy about.  There's going to be a lot of rhetoric about a feeling of vindication for the families of American soldiers who have died in the war effort.  How does that work?  "It's ok now.  Now the families and friends of the bad guy and 20 of his closest disciples get to feel the same way that you have.  Cheer up!"

Again, I'm not saying that it wasn't a necessary action.  It was.  I'm not questioning that.  But now it's time to move on, be glad it's over, and try to avoid celebrating killing.  It's amazing how perspective makes things seem alright that would seem just horrible from the opposite viewpoint.

Posted by girt25 on 5/2/2011 1:17:00 AM (view original):

Posted by dahsdebater on 5/2/2011 1:11:00 AM (view original):
I think there are other forms of justice.  I'm opposed to capital punishment as well.  I don't buy the argument that "an eye for an eye" is justice.  I don't think killing anyone is ever just; I think it violates the very definition of the word just.  In this case at least we know with all but complete certitude that the victim was guilty.  Regardless, if we do the same thing we call him a terrible person for doing, how are we making the world a better place?  I don't think "don't kill people or we'll kill you" is the kind of message that leads to more peace in the world.

Well, I think that may be where we diverge.

As a general rule, I'd agree with you. But this was a completely different, special place -- a man who masterminded the worst attack of all time against this country, a man at the helm of a horrible terrorist organization, a man who would strike out again against both the US and other people/nations whenever and however he could. If you don't think killing him help makes the world a better place, then we'll have to agree to disagree.

+1

Posted by dahsdebater on 5/2/2011 1:11:00 AM (view original):
I think there are other forms of justice.  I'm opposed to capital punishment as well.  I don't buy the argument that "an eye for an eye" is justice.  I don't think killing anyone is ever just; I think it violates the very definition of the word just.  In this case at least we know with all but complete certitude that the victim was guilty.  Regardless, if we do the same thing we call him a terrible person for doing, how are we making the world a better place?  I don't think "don't kill people or we'll kill you" is the kind of message that leads to more peace in the world.

Agree and disagree. I know that we should forgive our enemies but this guy deserves no mercy or grace whatsoever.  Killing is never just anyway.  We just use other terms to validate it.  This world is a tough place and you have to be firm and resolute in your beliefs.

About killing him; we went in with the intent of capturing him. He just happened to fire back. And I have no problem with military force.
BTW, there is never going to be true peace in this world.

Edit: I do not mean to antagonize, just to state an opinion.

I don't see who you would be antagonizing.  I actually agree with just about everything you said.  Again, I'm not saying we didn't do what we had to do.  I'm not opposed to using the military.  In fact, I can make a very good argument in favor of having gone to war with Iraq.  Totally different issue.  The point is that while we can understand and support wars and other military actions, what we should celebrate is when they are over.  Killing is an inherently bad act.  Doesn't necessarily mean it can never be justified, but I could never justify being actively happy about it.  I'm not debating the action, I'm debating to the perception of and reaction to the action.  Americans everywhere are celebrating a killing.  Not only do I find that morally troubling, think how it looks to the people in the Middle East who thought that Bin Laden was a holy crusader against an evil America.  This response is certainly not helping to dispel that image.

Posted by dahsdebater on 5/2/2011 1:57:00 AM (view original):
I don't see who you would be antagonizing.  I actually agree with just about everything you said.  Again, I'm not saying we didn't do what we had to do.  I'm not opposed to using the military.  In fact, I can make a very good argument in favor of having gone to war with Iraq.  Totally different issue.  The point is that while we can understand and support wars and other military actions, what we should celebrate is when they are over.  Killing is an inherently bad act.  Doesn't necessarily mean it can never be justified, but I could never justify being actively happy about it.  I'm not debating the action, I'm debating to the perception of and reaction to the action.  Americans everywhere are celebrating a killing.  Not only do I find that morally troubling, think how it looks to the people in the Middle East who thought that Bin Laden was a holy crusader against an evil America.  This response is certainly not helping to dispel that image.

Just trying to cover my bases :)
Anyway, I think this may be a tough situation to think about. It honestly stems from a view of intense nationalism in which we are so caught up in.
There should be swift punishment and justice. 
What is the mindset/purpose of the actual killing? It is better to kill 1 and save many then not do anything at all. If it means that our safety and liberties are secured, then so be it.

Amazingly, even after all the major news sources confirmed his death, there are still on-line skeptics.  "It's an Obama trick,"...... "How convenient for the President."....."He'll probably have a news conference tonight and preempt 'Celebrity Apprentice.'..."On the anniversary of Bush's 'Mission Accomplished' speech??  Right!" ...."10 years ago, I heard on Fox News that he died of kidney failure. We've been lied to for 10 years."

I half  expected Fox News to be off the air today due to 'technical difficulties'.  They first reported Bin Laden's death on Dec. 26, 2001 , even quoting  a Taliban 'leader' who was at his bedside when he died of illness, attended the funeral and burial, and said that Bin Laden had 'no remorse' for his actions.

need to be sure that his body is disposed of in a way that does not permit there to be a site at which homage is paid to him - yet I suppose I think it should be done in a way that is consistent with islamic practice - do they do burial at sea?

Does this mean the war is over?

Posted by fd343ny on 5/2/2011 6:10:00 AM (view original):
need to be sure that his body is disposed of in a way that does not permit there to be a site at which homage is paid to him - yet I suppose I think it should be done in a way that is consistent with islamic practice - do they do burial at sea?

Why? He did not live a life of a muslim or
Follow the teachings of the quaran. Why does he deserve a muslim burial.

I think we announced that we had followed islamic customs - and I think it was wise to do so, lest we inflame folks.  It is terrific that he is gone and now crab food

Posted by bow2dacowz on 5/2/2011 1:02:00 AM (view original):
if you dont want to celebrate his being dead, or you think we need to move on to more important issues in society....

then change your perspective on it and instead you can celebrate that the spouses, parents, children, and friends of everyone this man killed, injured, or otherwise impacted can finally experience SOME sense of justice for their loss, even if it's only a little.

this.

Posted by fd343ny on 5/2/2011 6:10:00 AM (view original):
need to be sure that his body is disposed of in a way that does not permit there to be a site at which homage is paid to him - yet I suppose I think it should be done in a way that is consistent with islamic practice - do they do burial at sea?

In Muslim practice, if you steal they are supposed to cut off your hand.  Osama was a not a true Muslim by any means, however, the Quran does "validate" the killing of anyone who is opposed to Islam. So in Islam that means you are allowed to kill anyone who does not believe in Allah.  The logic and practices behind the Quran is very flawed and hypocritcial indeed.