New worlds question. - Page 2 - Hardball Dynasty

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Posted by MikeT23 on 2/1/2012 2:00:00 PM (view original):
Well, now that you've been a commish for half a season, I'd say you have all the answers!!!

You don't need to be a commish to see that some worlds fill quickly every season and some take weeks every season. The worlds that take weeks to fill don't have new worlds being created to blame for their problems.

2/2/2012 9:15 AM

MikeT23

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My point is that you haven't experienced the frustration of needing 3 owners to start for weeks on end. I haven't either but I do understand why those people hate the creation of new worlds. They believe, incorrectly IMO, that owners would sign up for an existing world instead of a new one. They also believe, correctly, that some owners dump an existing world to join a new one. I bet, if I checked, I could find 2-3 examples of that happening in Sweet Lou.

What I don't want to see, from you specifically, is griping if you can't find owners for your 5 openings(which you'll have because all new worlds do).

2/2/2012 9:21 AM

willsauve

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You'll never hear me crying about not filling. I already have a 5 owner waiting list and have recently gotten confirmations that everyone is coming back in S2.. I'm hopeful but not overly confident that we will have 0 turnover this season.. But I will be openly recruiting early if spots do open up. We also screened through over 50 people to assemble the current list and didnt openly recruit to fill Sweet Lou, we werent force to bring in newbies/aliases.. Those facts alone should be a sign that we shouldnt have issues in the near future.

2/2/2012 2:32 PM

MikeT23

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Just sayin'. You're casting stones at commishes and you haven't had to walk in their shoes. You may have done everything right and have no problems. In fact, I hope you don't but I wouldn't discount the concerns of others until I knew they wouldn't be my concerns at some point.

2/2/2012 3:30 PM

gotigers17

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Complaining about new worlds is just non-sense really. New worlds should open up once per "season" or about once every three months. There is a market for people joining new worlds, and WIS has to respond to what the market wants. That being said, rather than require newbies I think it would make more sense to require that all owners buy a 4 pack and apply it to the world irrevocably in order to join. If they bail during someone gets to fill in for free for multiple seasons. This way you solve two problems. Less people will want to join new worlds because they cost $90 (hence they may join existing worlds), and new worlds will stay full for about a year without any new major recruitment issue.

I (to my discredit) am not terribly discerning when I pick up a new team or world to join. I also almost always just join a league that has gone public, and I have taken on some real stinkers. Especially when I am learning the game, I don't feel like I owe some lifetime commitment, and would hope that nobody else feels that either. That being said, if I join a league that has gone public, and help everybody in the league out by keeping things moving along, why would they ever be upset that I left to go join another world? New, old, good, or bad why would that matter to anyone? If I pick up a stinker and put it in a better position to move forward why would someone be mad if I wanted to move on?

2/2/2012 6:25 PM

shobob

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What about if someone takes a good team, signs a bunch of long term contracts, and then leaves to join a new world? Would that be annoying? Again - this is strictly hypothetical. I am not referring to anyone at this point.

2/2/2012 7:04 PM

dyoungquist

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Posted by nauds3000 on 2/1/2012 4:46:00 PM (view original):
Posted by shobob on 2/1/2012 9:41:00 AM (view original):
Anyone think it's a douchey move to join a new world while quitting an existing one?
You mean he dropped out of one of your worlds to join a waiting list? lol

That new world will never be created, WIS made the requirement 15 openings both public and private before that happens. And with worlds rolling over every day that will never happen, or take a very long time

That new world, Thome, was created when opening got down around 20 today. Currently openings are down to a total of 15.

2/2/2012 8:35 PM

willsauve

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Posted by shobob on 2/2/2012 7:04:00 PM (view original):
What about if someone takes a good team, signs a bunch of long term contracts, and then leaves to join a new world? Would that be annoying? Again - this is strictly hypothetical. I am not referring to anyone at this point.

What about a guy who joins a world takes a crappy team signs a bunch of horrible contracts and bails on it.. He then makes a joke about and tries to convince people it was purely a heroic act.... What about a guy like ths?

2/2/2012 10:53 PM

gotigers17

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Untradeable contracts are the worst way to mess up a team hands down. Thing is that is true whether or not you stay with the club. Of course bailing makes it even worse after you do that, but it sounds like you guys have a problem with people who aren't very good at this game. Or maybe you don't like malicious people. Probably both I guess.

I don't hear anything in here that shows you being upset with people who leave teams for new worlds. You just don't like people who leave teams in bad position to be taken over by someone else the next season.

2/2/2012 11:48 PM

MikeT23

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You're looking at it in a vacuum.   Regardless of actual commitment, most of us feel there is an implied commitment when one takes a team.   It's implied in the name of the game.   "Dynasty".   There are no one year dynasties.    Personally, I think you have to reach season 4 in a world to even feel that the team is "yours".   That's when your first season draftees/IFA signings will have to be put on the 40 and possibly become part of the BL team.

I think that's the bigger problem people have with leaving a team to join a new world.   They've assumed you made some sort of commitment to their world.

I commish two worlds.   If someone told me "I"ll likely only be here one season. I just want to see how I do in your world", I'd pass.

2/3/2012 8:44 AM

gotigers17

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First, there are lots of reasons to join a world and equally as many, if not more, reasons to leave it. One of the worlds I was in went public to fill, and didn't tell anyone who was joining that the previous season they had voted on starting a prospect cap. Now I am not necessarily against a cap, but I don't like when leagues go public without a blog that has the rules posted in advance. It turned me off, and the commish's attitude about it was so off putting that left after one year. Another world I joined I didn't look closely enough before I took the team and there were 2 guys in AAA making 4 mil + for three more seasons. AND they had a 38 yr old Hall of Fame calibur player in steep decline (66 ovr) that is due 9 mil for three more. Wasting 20 million a year for 3 seasons is a problem considering the team has few prospects to speak of. Now I might choose to keep that team, but if I don't I will take a new team after I leave. While I have it though I won't make the situation worse by not signing my first round picks, or signing more absurd contracts. Every owner will leave their team eventually. I beleive that quality of ownership is much more important that duration. Leaving teams an utter disaster area is what makes worlds hard to fill.

To address your commitment comments Mike, I have read some of your stuff in the forums. I assume you don't go public to fill your worlds. If you are a private league, the commish has every right to ask before they admit a member whether they plan to stay long term. If that person says yes, and they then bail that is something to be upset about. If you go public to fill your world, or you just give a guy the password when they sitemail no questions asked, there is no commitment beyond that one season. People can believe there is if they want, but in reality there just isn't. Easy come easy go they say. Being upset about a guy or two leaving to join a new world when there are 4-8 openings every year is silly.

2/3/2012 10:59 AM

MikeT23

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I actually agree 100%. Public world owners have criticized me repeatedly for saying that public worlds are learning pools. THEY have a commitment to their team/world but I think it's unrealistic to think JoeN00b will have the same commitment when he went thru no screening process. He showed up, plunked down his money and joined a world. Same goes for the "public" private worlds that just hand out passwords. I think both get what they get. The ol' "made your bed" thing.

I was definitely speaking from a private world commish that screens owners. I usually have a waitlist so I don't care why someone leaves but I do understand the frustrations of others. While you say 1-2 leaving is no big deal, it is. That's over 6% of your owner base moving on. There are only so many people playing this game.

2/3/2012 11:19 AM

gotigers17

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Yes but if those 1 or 2 people didn't leave to join a new world, because there were none available, they would think up another excuse and be gone is my point. I would say it is probably very very rare that an owner who is having fun in a world leaves that world for a new one.  If a guy isn't having fun he should leave. $100 a year is a lot of money to play a game you don't enjoy.

Even after 30 odd seasons I am still learning things every week about this game that are very useful. At some point I will want to just have 3 or 4 teams and be commited to the worlds I am in. When that happens, I will look for stable worlds and let the commish know up front that I am looking to be around for a long time. Until then, any commitment somebody else thinks I have to their open/public world is not very real because they didn't screen me to get in.

I am actually a huge believer in new worlds. The more the user base expands the more money WIS makes, and the more probable it becomes for them to spend money on improvements.  Not only that but the possibility of being in a new world is simply exciting to a lot of people. Again though I don't think newbies being required to join new worlds is meaningful. That is where you end up with recruitment problems. Newbies are always going to have attrition. That is just a fact.  Requring owners to commit a 4 pack to the league would be a much more healthy way to create new worlds. Generally only veterans would take that plunge. Like you said Mike it is after 4 seasons you start to feel like the team is yours. Having 8 openings each year isn't all that related to new worlds being created. I just don't think some guys realize that.

2/3/2012 12:32 PM

MikeT23

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The allure of a new world can convince owners to leave a world that they're not 100% committed to. For me, I don't care because I want that 100%. But some worlds need the 87% or 53% committed owners. And those are the owners/commishes who complain about new worlds.

I don't think the user base expands when new worlds open. My guess is half the n00bs are just aliases. And that's conservative.

2/3/2012 12:39 PM

soursurfer

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One point I'll make is that it is beneficial to a world to have owners stay long-term, because of the budget movement restrictions. The owners who have their budget exactly where they want it have a bit of an advantage over an ower who is in his first or second season.

2/3/2012 5:39 PM

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