Two teams, same world, same division Topic

tianyi7886
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Posted by coach_billyg on 3/12/2012 2:02:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tianyi7886 on 3/12/2012 1:56:00 PM (view original):
About a year ago, I brought it to seble's attention of a coach with 5 teams in the same world, in the same level (the coach told me about it via sitemail). Those teams also FSS shared with them recruiting players from the same states. Seble didn't care. 
they admitted to FSS sharing too? that is really messed up. are you sure you got seble, not just a CS drone?
I got seble. After I post about it in the forum, the coach exploded on me with a message like "what do you care how I run my teams and where I recruit from." I told him an easy way to clear his innocence is to post the FSS screenshot from his 5 teams, he refused and said the way he scout is proprietary and will ruin his recruiting strategy. 

Seble's response was as long as the teams are in different regions, it's fine. That actually make it worse. If the coach has 5 teams in CA, it would be hard for him to fill 20-30 recruits a season w/o battling himself, or overextend to farther regions. When he has a team in CA/TX/NC/MA, he can easily have these teams scout their home state, then have the CA team dip into TX should he need an extra recruit and vice versa, and this is indeed what happened with 2 or 3 teams with 2 JRs on each team from TX, 3 teams with 2 FR from NC, etc. As a result, the team in CA got FSS info for free on TX, NC, and NY (scouted by the MA team), and saved 3-4k per team in FSS money. Huge deal in D3. 

3/12/2012 2:08 PM (edited)
udm_mike
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Posted by tianyi7886 on 3/12/2012 1:57:00 PM (view original):
Posted by colonels19 on 3/12/2012 1:51:00 PM (view original):
let it slide, who cares?  I've used a second team to "cheat" as far as FSS goes, but that's not even a big deal...yeah it's weird but I don't see how it hurts the game...it also might not be the same guy...if some guy creates colonels18 or coIonels19 or colonels20...I have no control over that
I routinely spend 50-60% of my recruiting budget in D3 to scout states (there, the cat is out of the bag). I would love to have an additional 6k to battle other teams in D3. 
No kidding.  That's a huge advantage.  I've never even considered scouting states to use for other teams.  But, then again, I'm not a cheater like colonels.
3/12/2012 2:29 PM
flashlantern
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Unless these examples of what many consider cheating leads to coaches leaving the game and stop paying for any additional seasons, I doubt this seble will put a stop to it. From a newcomer's standpoint, it's about him making money from a guy willing to pay for five teams in the same world and division. Until such practices lead to negative effects on his bottom line, I fail to see why he would care to do anything about it. That being said, I would have a big problem with it if such things were being done in the world I currently play. It's hard enough coming in as a new guy to the game recruiting without having to recruit against someone who is working the system like this...
3/12/2012 2:53 PM
llamanunts
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Posted by coach_billyg on 3/12/2012 2:02:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tianyi7886 on 3/12/2012 1:56:00 PM (view original):
About a year ago, I brought it to seble's attention of a coach with 5 teams in the same world, in the same level (the coach told me about it via sitemail). Those teams also FSS shared with them recruiting players from the same states. Seble didn't care. 
they admitted to FSS sharing too? that is really messed up. are you sure you got seble, not just a CS drone?
There was an admission in this very thread.
3/12/2012 3:32 PM
cburton23
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I find it funny that this type of situation causes such a minor uproar, but if this coach were to post his FSS data in his CC that would be collusion and then we must put a stop to it.
3/12/2012 3:50 PM
mamxet
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self collusion?  discuss.

3/12/2012 4:06 PM
coach_billyg
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Posted by cburton23 on 3/12/2012 3:50:00 PM (view original):
I find it funny that this type of situation causes such a minor uproar, but if this coach were to post his FSS data in his CC that would be collusion and then we must put a stop to it.
its not really minor, there have been a thousand+ posts from coaches talking about how sharing FSS between your own teams is cheating, and thats why coaches shouldn't have 2 teams in the same world, etc...
3/12/2012 4:19 PM
cburton23
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my point was, there is disagreement on if this ok or not and even with the debate nobody seems to be killing those that have admitted to it unlike the posts dealing with collusion amung different coaches.
3/12/2012 4:23 PM
dacj501
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Posted by cburton23 on 3/12/2012 4:23:00 PM (view original):
my point was, there is disagreement on if this ok or not and even with the debate nobody seems to be killing those that have admitted to it unlike the posts dealing with collusion amung different coaches.
well, colonels is the only one who admitted anything illicit, and, well, its not really necessary to attack colonels...
3/12/2012 4:54 PM
uconnut
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Posted by fd343ny on 3/12/2012 12:28:00 PM (view original):
I think the official position that WIS took some time ago was that it was okay so long as the two schools were not in the same region - no clear definition, but I think it means they need to be pretty darn far apart.

AND of course one must not engage in any activity that is collusive or contrary to fair play

my opinion would be that scheduling each other is inappropriate
i would think that if they are playing eachother it is almost by definition contrary to fair play.

3/12/2012 10:58 PM
asher413
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Here's the core problem:

Two teams are still legal in WIS.  Regardless of if you agree or not, the outlined rules are that you have to be in different "regions", not divisions.

We could debate the rules all day long, but as long as those are the given lines on the playing field, nothing can be done about it.
3/12/2012 11:08 PM
sublightd
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I agree with Asher's statement. My main way of combating it is calling these guys out when they start bragging about their master of the universe status. Half these threads that say "join x world, the best around" I've found are full of cheaters. In one world a guy stated in the cc his D1 team was looking at one guy his lower level team recruited. In another world, at D3 I had a guy in Connecticut battle me over 10k in CA. In another world, a guy openly posted that he would share his FSS with everyone in the conference after he signed all his guys.

I'm almost feeling like Nick Nolte in Blue Chips where everyone around is cheating but me. It's small consolation to lose out on guys I know other coaches cheated to get, but I still am successful enough to still enjoy this game. Gimme another few seasons of failing to win that first NC and maybe not.
3/12/2012 11:42 PM (edited)
baloochow82
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it to me this is like a world I used to play in, that the whole conference shared FFS reports, they had it broke down so each team would FSS certian states and then 1 person would put all those records together and send them to all the other coaches in the conference using emails so as to not get caught, needless to say I only stayed in that conference for 1 season, to me recruiting is the best part of HD.
3/12/2012 11:42 PM
isack24
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Of course using one team to benefit another is not acceptable,, but I don't really think cheating is as rampant as everyone seems to be describing.
3/12/2012 11:56 PM
tianyi7886
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I wish I could play myself and pitch my D3 teams in one world against my D1 team in another. I have a strong suspicion my D3 team would win out. 
3/13/2012 12:35 AM
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