I'm starting a live progressive right now designed completely to eliminate benefits from and reasons for tanking (#s 3 & 4 here). There is a limit of 14 keepers, but the draft order is based on each team's most-expensive keepers. Having found in another progressive that bases draft order on salary that some owners dumped good players and kept $200K guys to improve draft position, I went with the top 8 salaries figuring that it's unlikely anyone would dump a player that good just for the possibility of a better spot; the keepers are submitted to me via sitemail, not posted until all are in, so no one knows what dollar figure will result in what draft spot. There is no trading allowed (picks or players), so no way for someone to weaken his team while stockpiling draft picks.

I set the league up that way because I was tired of playing in leagues that were decided by wholesale trading of stars for picks, leaving some teams as powerhouses and others unable to compete. That forced everyone else in the league to A) trade a bunch of picks to try to compete; B) throw up the white flag and blow up their roster to match their competitors' stockpiling of picks; or C) play the game straight up with no hope of a playoff spot and no hope of a good draft pick.

Win floors are a half-hearted option, because you can end up with 6 teams trying to win no more than 35 (40, whatever the number) games. I'm hoping the limited keepers+no incentive to tank+no trading+11 non-keepers = everyone trying to win.

I agree that win floors are the least effective way to deal with the problem, because they create two types of player that no one really wants to see: the owner who wants to get their team to .500 or better but doesn't have enough talent - sometimes this can be through not fault of their own since they may have taken over abandoned or neglected teams; or the owner that does as you suggest joshvt that gets to that magic number and then has a fire sale, distorting the competition for the whole league. It is true that in RL MLB teams trade off good players for future prospects. So it is an inevitable part of the game, but usually this happens mid-season. The 35-40 thing makes this happen neither in the off-season when a rebuilding process can begin with the draft, nor later in the season after doing one's best, but only after hitting that minimum.

That said, I have enough trouble winning in progressives, let alone having the luxury of tanking !

The bad part about playing progressives is that everyone knows who the rookies are going to be for the next season. In RL MLB there are top prospects that clubs want but in reality no one really knows what kind of career they are going to have. In WIS, rookies have their career right in front of you to look at. That alone makes for the temptation to cheat to gain draft position, especially in seasons with hall of fame caliber players.

In a 1914 progressive - I thought, hmm - my team is mediocre.  I have a backup 3B/2B/LF/RF that I could start - maybe I could get Ruth if I don't win a lot of games.  60 games in I'm 40-20.  Apparently I'm not very good at losing.  

Posted by chargingryno on 8/3/2012 9:23:00 PM (view original):
In a 1914 progressive - I thought, hmm - my team is mediocre.  I have a backup 3B/2B/LF/RF that I could start - maybe I could get Ruth if I don't win a lot of games.  60 games in I'm 40-20.  Apparently I'm not very good at losing.  

The problem is, I'd wager, in 1914, with Ruth available, that a large number of teams are tanking. Meaning your modest attempt at losing is nothing compared to the full scale attempts of others. 

Posted by italyprof on 8/2/2012 6:54:00 PM (view original):
I agree with contrarian23 and uncleal in their positions on all 4. 

Me too. I would further qualify this by saying that if the owner stays with the team, legitimately trying to rebuild, I find it less offensive than someone trying to win a championship at any cost, and then dumping a team that is in a shambles.

Posted by pfattkatt on 8/4/2012 11:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by italyprof on 8/2/2012 6:54:00 PM (view original):
I agree with contrarian23 and uncleal in their positions on all 4. 

Me too. I would further qualify this by saying that if the owner stays with the team, legitimately trying to rebuild, I find it less offensive than someone trying to win a championship at any cost, and then dumping a team that is in a shambles.

I agree with this. But while someone is rebuilding, I still feel it is their responsibility to put the best team they can on the field with what they have. Playing a team with 800 IP or putting no management effort into a weak team makes the league less fun for everyone.

Adjusted wins formula is garbage

Posted by bigschnozz on 8/5/2012 12:31:00 PM (view original):
Adjusted wins formula is garbage

depends on which formula you use.  and also how good you are at not playing with all-stars.  

The sooner you learn that Tony Conigliaro can get you to pretty much the same place Hank Aaron in the standings, the extra 3M is a great way to drop salary and improve draft position.  Also, you can usually pick up an extra player/pick by trading off HOF'ers for lesser known players that perform well. 

well you said in all caps and in bold.  So it is obviously true and based on fact, not just opinion.  

AWF*ERC#<(BB/9+)PO-(A*E)

? 

Posted by chargingryno on 8/5/2012 4:58:00 PM (view original):
well you said in all caps and in bold.  So it is obviously true and based on fact, not just opinion.  

Posts here rarely make me laugh, but this one did.