Posted by llamanunts on 4/16/2013 4:59:00 PM (view original):
I don't recall any requests for that tool, but maybe I missed them.  I do remember a lukewarm-to-derisive reception.

i recall a similar reception, however, its definitely been requested a number of times over the years. if potential was included it would be nice, simply putting cut-offs doesnt get you there, and looking through so many recruits can be a chore. allowing us to sort by a formula, like you can in various recruiting tools people have built/used over the years, would definitely be nice - and a decent number of people asked for it.

I guess I'm unsure of exactly what was changed here.  I'll use the following example to be clear about what I'm asking:

Example:   Recruiting starts at 5pm CST and I see a kid I want to recruit right away and plan to start him from Day 1.  I offer him some HVs, a start, and a scholly.  30 minutes later and still in that first cycle, I decide I don't want to offer the start, so I withdraw it. 

Is this what seble just changed, the ability within the same cycle to withdaw certain actions?

Posted by jamespastine on 4/16/2013 4:15:00 PM (view original):

Posted by grecianfox on 4/16/2013 1:38:00 PM (view original):
Not sure I like this, I have offered starts/minutes before at the early stages of a battle and then withdrawn to see how things play out as recruiting continues. I like to be able to reconsider my kneejerk reactions.

i concur with this. i think it was a small (very small) part of recruiting strategy that has been removed. recruiting needs more options, not less.

This strategy still exists, but you have to pay...

If you inform of a RS, you'll have to inform of non-RS to be able to withdraw that.

If you inform of a non-RS, you'll have to re-RS him (and pay).

If you promise starts and minutes, you'll have to RS, then un-RS, him, and pay.

The real question is, can you do these actions in the same cycle (if, as happens, you change your mind ASAP)?

Posted by jdno on 4/16/2013 5:11:00 PM (view original):
I guess I'm unsure of exactly what was changed here.  I'll use the following example to be clear about what I'm asking:

Example:   Recruiting starts at 5pm CST and I see a kid I want to recruit right away and plan to start him from Day 1.  I offer him some HVs, a start, and a scholly.  30 minutes later and still in that first cycle, I decide I don't want to offer the start, so I withdraw it. 

Is this what seble just changed, the ability within the same cycle to withdaw certain actions?

yes. you can no longer withdraw promises and redshirt/no redshirt, like it was a year ago or whatever, before he let you do it in the first place. just like with the scholarship offer, you cant undo it.

Posted by wronoj on 4/16/2013 5:13:00 PM (view original):

Posted by jamespastine on 4/16/2013 4:15:00 PM (view original):

Posted by grecianfox on 4/16/2013 1:38:00 PM (view original):
Not sure I like this, I have offered starts/minutes before at the early stages of a battle and then withdrawn to see how things play out as recruiting continues. I like to be able to reconsider my kneejerk reactions.

i concur with this. i think it was a small (very small) part of recruiting strategy that has been removed. recruiting needs more options, not less.

This strategy still exists, but you have to pay...

If you inform of a RS, you'll have to inform of non-RS to be able to withdraw that.

If you inform of a non-RS, you'll have to re-RS him (and pay).

If you promise starts and minutes, you'll have to RS, then un-RS, him, and pay.

The real question is, can you do these actions in the same cycle (if, as happens, you change your mind ASAP)?

yeah you can do them all together. what do you mean, and pay? if you put a redshirt on, you have to pay, if the recruit doesnt like it. if you use redshirt/no redshirt to clear promises, i think the net impact of all the promise/redshirt related **** is 0.

Posted by gillispie on 4/16/2013 5:20:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wronoj on 4/16/2013 5:13:00 PM (view original):

Posted by jamespastine on 4/16/2013 4:15:00 PM (view original):

Posted by grecianfox on 4/16/2013 1:38:00 PM (view original):
Not sure I like this, I have offered starts/minutes before at the early stages of a battle and then withdrawn to see how things play out as recruiting continues. I like to be able to reconsider my kneejerk reactions.

i concur with this. i think it was a small (very small) part of recruiting strategy that has been removed. recruiting needs more options, not less.

This strategy still exists, but you have to pay...

If you inform of a RS, you'll have to inform of non-RS to be able to withdraw that.

If you inform of a non-RS, you'll have to re-RS him (and pay).

If you promise starts and minutes, you'll have to RS, then un-RS, him, and pay.

The real question is, can you do these actions in the same cycle (if, as happens, you change your mind ASAP)?

yeah you can do them all together. what do you mean, and pay? if you put a redshirt on, you have to pay, if the recruit doesnt like it. if you use redshirt/no redshirt to clear promises, i think the net impact of all the promise/redshirt related **** is 0.

followup question: It is my understanding that if you use the inform of no-redshirt button that the kid will NEVER take a redshirt, even if you re-inform. Is this true/still true? If so...

"yeah you can do them all together. what do you mean, and pay? if you put a redshirt on, you have to pay, if the recruit doesnt like it. if you use redshirt/no redshirt to clear promises, i think the net impact of all the promise/redshirt related **** is 0."

what i mean is, you have to pay the $10 to add/withdraw whatever action it is as a recruiting action, as opposed to doing it for free by hitting "withdraw".

Posted by wronoj on 4/16/2013 6:07:00 PM (view original):
"yeah you can do them all together. what do you mean, and pay? if you put a redshirt on, you have to pay, if the recruit doesnt like it. if you use redshirt/no redshirt to clear promises, i think the net impact of all the promise/redshirt related **** is 0."

what i mean is, you have to pay the $10 to add/withdraw whatever action it is as a recruiting action, as opposed to doing it for free by hitting "withdraw".

oh ok. yeah you have to spend 10 bucks. wasnt sure if you were talking about something substantial - like overcoming a redshirt!

Posted by dacj501 on 4/16/2013 5:53:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gillispie on 4/16/2013 5:20:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wronoj on 4/16/2013 5:13:00 PM (view original):

Posted by jamespastine on 4/16/2013 4:15:00 PM (view original):

Posted by grecianfox on 4/16/2013 1:38:00 PM (view original):
Not sure I like this, I have offered starts/minutes before at the early stages of a battle and then withdrawn to see how things play out as recruiting continues. I like to be able to reconsider my kneejerk reactions.

i concur with this. i think it was a small (very small) part of recruiting strategy that has been removed. recruiting needs more options, not less.

This strategy still exists, but you have to pay...

If you inform of a RS, you'll have to inform of non-RS to be able to withdraw that.

If you inform of a non-RS, you'll have to re-RS him (and pay).

If you promise starts and minutes, you'll have to RS, then un-RS, him, and pay.

The real question is, can you do these actions in the same cycle (if, as happens, you change your mind ASAP)?

yeah you can do them all together. what do you mean, and pay? if you put a redshirt on, you have to pay, if the recruit doesnt like it. if you use redshirt/no redshirt to clear promises, i think the net impact of all the promise/redshirt related **** is 0.

followup question: It is my understanding that if you use the inform of no-redshirt button that the kid will NEVER take a redshirt, even if you re-inform. Is this true/still true? If so...

true. net impact, i meant on considering credit. so if people were using extra effort to overcome the withdrawl, so they could still redshirt, they lost that option (sorry!). but im not sure the effort it takes to overcome the withdrawl was any less than to overcome a straight-up redshirt. does anyone know?

EDIT - CORRECTION - i misread dac's question, i thought he was confirming that you could never redshirt (without a work ethic hit) after you used a redshirt/ no redshirt to undo promises. that would be correct. however, you absolutely can re-inform of redshirt, after a redshirt/noredshirt combo. this can be done in the same cycle, or in subsequent cycles (before the player signs)

Posted by coach_billyg on 4/16/2013 4:56:00 PM (view original):

Posted by grecianfox on 4/16/2013 1:38:00 PM (view original):
Not sure I like this, I have offered starts/minutes before at the early stages of a battle and then withdrawn to see how things play out as recruiting continues. I like to be able to reconsider my kneejerk reactions.

well, if you dont like it, blame me, not seble :) we never used to be able to undo anything, and i think the goal was to let people undo things without doing a lot of work - but these situations can get too complex and convoluted, its not even clear what is supposed to happen - so its definitely non-trivial to fix. thats why i asked seble to remove the option instead of fixing it, i mean im sure he made his own decision, but after thinking about it a while, i felt pretty strongly that was the best course of action. 

I do blame you and will be taking it out on USC for years to come.

Posted by gillispie on 4/16/2013 5:20:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wronoj on 4/16/2013 5:13:00 PM (view original):

Posted by jamespastine on 4/16/2013 4:15:00 PM (view original):

Posted by grecianfox on 4/16/2013 1:38:00 PM (view original):
Not sure I like this, I have offered starts/minutes before at the early stages of a battle and then withdrawn to see how things play out as recruiting continues. I like to be able to reconsider my kneejerk reactions.

i concur with this. i think it was a small (very small) part of recruiting strategy that has been removed. recruiting needs more options, not less.

This strategy still exists, but you have to pay...

If you inform of a RS, you'll have to inform of non-RS to be able to withdraw that.

If you inform of a non-RS, you'll have to re-RS him (and pay).

If you promise starts and minutes, you'll have to RS, then un-RS, him, and pay.

The real question is, can you do these actions in the same cycle (if, as happens, you change your mind ASAP)?

yeah you can do them all together. what do you mean, and pay? if you put a redshirt on, you have to pay, if the recruit doesnt like it. if you use redshirt/no redshirt to clear promises, i think the net impact of all the promise/redshirt related **** is 0.

for some reason I am having a hard time understanding you on this also (I understood your response to my proposed example above, thx).  So if I do a $110 special (start + scholly), I can later do a RS and no RS combinations like always and that will remove the promised start, right?  Assuming the answer is yes, is there anyway the kid will be open to R/S ever again, either by informing of R/S again or by rolling the dice once recruiting is over?

jdno, if you do a $110, you are correct, you can later RS/no RS to remove the promised start (and minutes, if applicable). the kid will only be open to RS if you inform. they are guaranteed to take a work ethic hit if you do it outside of recruiting. now, i guess thats not guaranteed no - if a guy has high work ethic and you can afford a drop, you could always do that. but i think the work ethic hits after you inform are generally pretty severe.

Posted by gillispie1 on 4/16/2013 9:13:00 PM (view original):
jdno, if you do a $110, you are correct, you can later RS/no RS to remove the promised start (and minutes, if applicable). the kid will only be open to RS if you inform. they are guaranteed to take a work ethic hit if you do it outside of recruiting. now, i guess thats not guaranteed no - if a guy has high work ethic and you can afford a drop, you could always do that. but i think the work ethic hits after you inform are generally pretty severe.

If you inform to clear promises, and then uninform to clear the redshirt, it is my understanding that he won't accept the r/s at all that season, even if you try to inform again. I might be wrong, but that's how I think it works...

dacj, CS's response is a little nebuluous b/c it seems (to me at least) he's answering your question as if you never resent the inform of R/S.  His statement about never accepting one w/o a WE drop is implying you didn't try to reinform him of R/S.  During recruiting if he doesn't want to take the R/S he would just un-consider you.  I take it to mean he's back to his neutral state, so if you reinform him of R/S and he eventually signs with you then he would take the R/S w/o a WE hit.

If they could have fixed the "bug" I would like that. I had trouble when informed of redshirt and withdrew it in the same cycle. Eventually the player did not sign which hurt so hopefully if they can fix this they should, if not so be it